Snow dilemmas: windrows, oatmeal and blading
This month we’ve received half of our annual average snowfall. In November. It’s not even technically winter yet. I’m doing my best to be excited about it, because we’re embracing our winter city nature. And most Edmontonians seem to be taking it in stride — leaving extra time to get to travel and helping neighbours shovel out.
I am proud of the hard work of city staff, who worked around the clock for more than a week to get the main roads clear after the deep snow started falling two weeks ago. At times the main roads were challenging, but most citizens drove responsibly given the conditions, so we had few accidents.
The side streets are another story.
Edmonton has thousands of kilometres of local roads that get a different level of treatment than the main roads.
Council’s Snow and Ice Control Policy calls for crews to ‘blade’ down to a level snow pack of 5cm or less. Some people like it – some people don’t. Some people say don’t do it because it leaves a windrow of snow across driveways and others say do it down to bare pavement, which would make an even larger windrow. Some say leave it as ‘oatmeal’ because it will pack down and call blading a waste of money.
Welcome to Council’s endless snow dilemma.
The other question is the windrows that are left across driveways in the process. The city’s policy is to try to keep them under 30 cm in height. If they’re over 30cm in height the city will remove them, but this requires different equipment (small loaders rather than the truck plows) which is a considerable expense.
I am not aware of another Canadian city that clears small windrows from driveways. To put things in perspective, some cities even regularly ban on-street parking and then leave large two or three-foot windrows for homeowners to clear themselves as a tradeoff for rapid response
Prior to 2009 we didn’t even do blading on side streets unless the ruts got really bad. Now blading is pro-active so that we’re down to a manageable condition each time there’s a big new snowfall.
Is it a perfect snow policy?
No.
There’s no such thing as a perfect snow policy because conditions vary from one year to the next. Conditions also vary from one end of the city to another. And, of course, citizens have different expectations (and different tires).
So to those citizens whose expectation is perfection, I’m afraid you’re always going to be disappointed.
But, with the policy Council has set and with the resources Council has allocated, city crews will continue to do their best.
If there’s a need to review the policy, and change the resources, Council will do that. But it’ll never be perfect.
Meanwhile, the current blading cycle will be completed sometime this weekend, getting road conditions down to a manageable condition, just in time for the next big snowfall in the forecast.
Update: Here’s a link to the blading schedule Just to be clear – the noted date is the day the blading starts, not when it’s supposed to be done – finishing an entire neighbourhood can then take up to a day.
50 thoughts on “Snow dilemmas: windrows, oatmeal and blading”
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I am in favour of a parking ban on residential streets to have the snow removed.
“To put things in perspective, some cities even regularly ban on-street parking and then leave large two or three-foot windrows for homeowners to clear themselves as a tradeoff for rapid response”
I would be in favour of a mandatory snow-tyre policy.
Regina uses Grators with side blades that drop down to clear the windrows. They take it to the pavement and don’t block driveways. Maybe it’s more expensive but the Grators do a much better job on side streets than plow trucks.
All I know is if they don’t clear my street before the next storm I won’t be able to get out of my area. The bottom of my large car is scraping all the way.
I see no reason the bobcats don’t come out with the blading trucks and start clearing the driveways immediately following the blading trucks. Making residents wait 24 plus hours is ridiculous.
Trucks bladed my street on Tuesday at 2 AM leaving a 75 cm windrow on my front drive. There’s absolutely no way my subcompact car can get through that. Those windrows are hard packed, fairly solid and heavy for an elderly woman like me! I called 311 at 8:30 AM asking for Roadways to send a bobcat out ASAP as I had to drive somewhere later that day. Also, I have arthritis in my hands and my knees so clearing it myself is extremely difficult for me. The 311 rep said she’d put me on the high priority list. At 4 PM the windrow was still there so I started to work on it myself, clearing enough so that I could get my car out of the driveway.
On Wednesday, around noon, 34 hours later, the bobcats finally showed up and cleared, near down to the pavement, every driveway entrance on the block… except mine. I guess mine looked clear enough for them even though there was still at least 20 cm of snow on it. Plus, the bobcat crew moved snow from other driveways and piled it up on the windrow beside my driveway very high, allowing much of it to spill down onto HALF the public sidewalk in front of my home, with big chunks falling all across the sidewalk.
This bobcat clearing crews’ methods are unacceptable. My driveway entrance should have been cleared just like the rest of the driveways on my block. My sidewalk should have been kept clear the way I had it. I find it very unfair to note I am required by law to keep the public sidewalks free of snow and ice but The City can pile up mounds of snow on and across it. What? Do they expect me to go out and clear that now too???
Sorry, Mayor Iveson, I must disagree with you. Roadways can and must do better than what they did and didn’t do for me.
Part of the problem is that there is nowhere for the snow to go in many of our neighbourhoods. Some areas have nice boulevards for the snow to be piled, but most do not. I live in Capilano, and had my streets cleared on Wednesday evening. I had time to move my vehicle so that it would not be plowed around, but it still left a (relatively) small windrow (about 30-40 cm) that occupied about a metre near the sidewalk.
I had two options: park further into the street, or clear a spot for my vehicle. I cleared a spot for my vehicle, and that makes moving down the street easier. Not everyone can do that, and so it does make the street significantly more difficult when people are parked on both sides of the street.
There’s no right answer to this problem, especially where there are no boulevards for the snow to be piled onto. I hope that all new subdivisions have this as a requirement.
Alvin must not live on a residential street.
I wasn’t in favour of residential blading this time. We put snow tires on our cars, had no problems, and would have preferred doing without the windrow. That said, after the blading the windrow is not overly high and I can live with it.
I’m trying to look at the bright side. After the next blast of snow of Sunday, the x-country skiing should be great.
I am not in favour of side street blading. We live in a harsh winter city, get good tires for your car. Why should the city be responsible for YOUR lousy tire choice? I finally decided to switch to HIGH quality winter tires and getting stuck just doesn’t happen to me anymore, in a 2wd sports car.
What’s next? Will people not want to wear winter coats and expect the city to heat all outdoor sidewalks? We live in Edmonton people, get with the program and adapt rather than making expensive and entitled demands. I thank you people for my increased taxes.
Weather is unpredictable and I doubt I need to cite recent horrific weather related tragedies in Alberta. Snow comes and snow goes. Where is removal priority? First and foremost, arterial routes. Get the traffic moving – which includes emergency vehicles. Residential snow clearing has and always will be a bone of contention between residents and Council. I moved here 15 years ago from Vancouver and I rarely complain about the snow removal here. Why? Because it’s a moot point. The snow comes, it’s cleared and we wait for the next round of white stuff. Would I like to have my residential street cleared for me including the windrow? Sure. But this ain’t the hill I’m going to die on.
I am in favor of parking ban on residential streets as well for snow removal. I have been stuck 3 times this week trying to maneuver residential streets. People will complain, but ultimately it will make for streets that are accessible.
I am all for residential parking bans, in fact I think it should be all winter and not a few days after a storm along the bus routes. Most of the people parking on the street in my neighbourhood are from condos where they don’t want to pay for extra parking, or home owners who fence off the whole backyard or fill the garage with crap and then need to park the three + family cars/trucks on the street. Then we have the renters and basement suites with all those additional people parking on the street as well. The house lots are so small that most don’t have adaquite parking even if they do park on the driveway without encroaching on the sidewalks. Our neighbourhoos were just not planed for people to have 2-3+ cars each, and they not to use their parking pads or garages. Good luck to our parents with mobility issues to be able to park in front of my own property on a good day. We end up having to help them from wherever they do find parking.
On another note… Even though my neighbourhood’s blading was marked as “completed” on Nov 26th on the city web site we are hearing/seeing stuck cars about every 30 mins including schoolbuses… And you can’t tell me they don’t have proper snow tires. Either the record keeping for what neighbourhoods are complete or the people doing the blading suck! There is no way I have cleared any windrow this year, only the main blvd/bus route has been cleared. Either way our snow removal process sucks overall.
Friday morning my west end cul-de-sac, which was packed down and not a problem to drive on, was bladed, but the messy and hard to drive on road outside of my cul-de-sac wasn’t touched. This makes absolutely no sense. Those roads are going to be terrible after this weekend’s snowfall. I’m very angered, confused, and disappointed in this so called snow removal.
Mr. Mayor,
As a Newfoundlander I understand the difficulties of snow better than most. My advice is to contact the people in charge of snow clearing for Mount Pearl and St. John’s. They can assist you with buying better equipment (plows that can clear 2 lanes at a time) and help you plan better. I may be a bit jaded as I have spent my life digging out driveways that been piled 3 feet or higher with freshly plowed snow. But never in all my days back home would we accept 200+ accidents as acceptable just because we got a bit of snow.
I think we have to support council as they try to maintain the need with the budget. I don’t think it is helpful to always compare to other cities because its often an apple to oranges debate. I believe the city is doing a great job. Too bad drivers don’t get their vehicles out of the way so we don’t create windrows half way into the street.
Do those of you suggesting that blading is a waste of time and everyone should be responsible for getting winter tires realize the cost of these tires? Both with purchasing them and the installation every year? Some people live on incredibly limited incomes. I am a student and work on the weekends just enough to pay my bills. I don’t have any extra money to save. You suggest that I should spend a large sum of money I don’t have so that I can get out of my neighbourhood? I don’t think so. There are other solutions like city blading happening much more quickly. My area hasn’t even once been bladed this winter and the roads in front of my place are horrendous. Cars getting stuck every day because the city hasn’t bothered to show up yet this winter. I’ve been lucky enough to be able to park in the back which has been bladed but not everyone is able to do that.
So instead of complaining that it’s other people’s fault for not having winter tires, smarten up and realize that not everyone has disposable income for a purchase that shouldn’t be necessary.
Selina, properly preparing your car for the climate you live in is YOUR responsibility, not the city’s. And yes, of course I realize the costs. Do YOU realize the costs for blading city streets? $300 an hour per grader. A set of winter tires is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of clearing all these roads so YOU don’t have to properly prepare your car. Having a car is not a RIGHT, it is a privilege. You gotta pay to play. While you’re at it, why don’t you complain about having to buy insurance and pay for oil changes? According to your attitude, some people can’t afford that so the City of Edmonton should pay for it for you. Since we’re on a roll, get the city to pay for the extra gas it takes to drive in slower winter traffic, or have the city buy you a snowbrush if you can’t afford it. Ridiculous!
Seriously, you all gotta just remember that having a car is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. So be prepared to take on ALL the responsibilities of owning your car.
Brad is right, go to Newfoundland and learn from the experts. Talk to Canadians who cope with 3X the amount of snow that falls in the prairies. Most Canadian cities east of Winnipeg can plow the streets just fine. One plow clearing the road. No complaints. But these cities don’t leave piles of snow in the streets, they CLEAR the streets. Snow piles or “windrows” are dangerous and useless. The snow at the end of the driveway or on the sidewalk simply has to be shoveled, it’s a fact of life for most Canadians. Neighbors help neighbours all the time with driveways and sidewalks, and the streets are cleared. No problem.
The City of Edmonton uses “blading” instead of snow plows. It’s not the right process. It’s slow and costly. It’s not the right terminology. Edmonton has “snow plows” on the roads 24/7 but they’re not plowing the snow. It makes no sense. They’re called “sand trucks” with the plows either removed or simply not used. It’s ridiculous. It’s wasteful and inefficient. Edmonton will use 10-12 vehicles to transport snow that could be plowed by one snow plow. Do the math.
Yes we should be proud of city workers. It’s the process that’s broken. We don’t need to haul snow using 10 trucks when one plow could do the job. Atlantic Canada doesn’t haul that much snow and they see 3X the amount. They use one plow to clear the road. Up one side of the street, down the other. Snow on the lawn. Done.
It’s time for a new mindset in Edmonton. The process doesn’t work well. We should learn from the experts. We should implement best-practices from the parts of our country that know snow. We should focus on safety, not cost. The right process will deal with the cost. We can stop using so many trucks and “blading” and start using plows. We can put snow on lawns instead of the street. That’s what most Canadians do and it works just fine.
Fix the process and the complaints will disappear. We might even find cost savings. Put some trust in the expertise of our fellow Canadians. Rely on neighbours to work together and help with shoveling of driveways and sidewalks. But look at the process. Look at the terminology. “Oatmeal” is simply inaction or laziness. Waiting for accumulation is not about safety. “Street widening” is for safety, “windrows” are not. “Snow plows” are faster and more effective than “blading.”
Look at priorities. Streets before sidewalks. Safety before cost.
We need a new mindset. Yes it won’t be perfect, but it can be better. A winter city should have this figured out. We’re not the first city to see snow. St. John’s has been dealing with snow for 600 years. We can learn from them. We can modify their process to our climate. We can do better.
Don, you and your city management really need to take a trip out to the mountain municipalities in BC.
There, the plows are out when the snow starts falling – major roads are cleared continuously. Side streets are plowed down to pavement within 48 hours. People’s driveways aren’t blocked in. Streets don’t narrow from 2.5 lanes to 1.
How?
Well, they have graders, plow trucks, and loaders. The plow trucks cover the major roads, along with graders. They push the snow to the sides. Then graders pile it up, followed by loaders with the massive snowblower attachments. Those work in tandem with plow trucks, and they spray the snow into the back of the truck, which takes it to a snow dump. Thus, the streets are cleared.
Why do this?
Well, for one it makes everything safer and it makes plowing more efficient. If you remove all the snow, then you don’t let streets get to impassable conditions. It also doesn’t melt on the road, creating crater-like potholes. It means that people travel the roads instead of being parked on them during rush hour.
Got news – the taxes there aren’t any higher than some of the outlying communities around Edmonton (and slightly higher than in the City).
Edmonton needs to come to terms with the fact that it gets snow, and it has to deal with the snow. It’s a safety issue, it’s an economic issue, and it’s even an environmental issue (how much more air pollution when commuting time is quadrupled on bad winter days?).
Edmonton’s snow removal is a joke compared to every other major snow-receiving municipality in Canada. Alberta’s snow removal is bad, but Edmonton’s is right at the top of the list. If you want this to be a world-class winter city, then that needs to change.
There were no signs in our area letting people know that blading was occurring so we all woke up to our cars trapped by windrows. I think the biggest issue is not with the blading but with the windrows and piles of snow that further narrow residential roads. One year, when the ploughs came through, they actually ploughed the snow all the way up onto our front lawn, leaving no windrows in front of our house! So, if removing all the snow is too expensive why not just go that one extra step to keeping our roads safe and passable and plough it onto our lawns. It’s where we end up having to move the snow to anyways in our neighbourhood. Just say no to windrows!
As a new arrival to side-street Edmotnon having just moved out of the Downtown where all streets got plowed quickly, I am happy with the blading the took place on my Alberta Avenue street in the wee hours of Friday. Not sure what technique the crews used but they did an awesome job plowing the windrow to one side of the street (parking is only allowed on one side of our street) and keeping the windrow to a minimum on the other. Our Mini Cooper can get in and out with a little coaxing. Looking good from here.
I understand how poor winter city urban design (front driveways and no boulevards) makes snow clearing difficult, but I have chosen to live in an area that has boulevards, does not have any front driveways and where parking is only permitted on one side of the street. It would be very simple to completely plow the road to pavement and store the snow on the boulevards here, but we still have to put up with the city’s “one size fits all” snow clearing policy that leaves streets covered in “oatmeal” (or as I prefer to call it, brown sludge) even after the plow trucks have been through. It is unfortunate that the entire city was not built like my 100 year old neighborhood, but why should my neighborhood have to suffer with inferior service because of design mistakes in other neighborhoods?
I suggest a policy of plowing to pavement in all neighborhoods where there are no driveways, with snow being left on boulevards or plowed across sidewalks if there are no boulevards. Where there are driveways, let the neighborhood choose either blading only to minimize windrows, or to pay an additional property tax levy to have the snow hauled away.
I also suggest an alternate side parking ban on residential streets during snow clearing operations – parking prohibited on the even side of the street on even dates and on the odd side of the street on odd dates. Clearing the whole street would take two days this way, but because residential snow clearing takes several days anyways this should not increase costs.
You are all so very senseless. The budget is the problem. Not the equipment nor the schedule or the people clearing it. We need double the snow removal budget to keep up with all your complaint. But wait in order to do that our taxes must increase as well. Them of course you will bitch about that. So my idea is if can’t manage to drive on our city’s well kept snow cleared streets,park your car for the winter and take the ets. Then you can complain about the pot holes in the spring.
I live in a crescent and the city piled all the snow in the center. Now kids slide down it into the surrounding street. That’s right – the city basically made a snow hill for kids to slide down literally in the middle of a street – cars driving around the new pile. They did this last year and when I called to point out the safety hazard, I was told it was no big deal and they would get to it – and two months later, they did. Luckily no kids were hit by the cars driving around their new city-built-in-center-of-road playground.
Things have improved, but I’ve lived in Ottawa and Winnipeg, and been in other major Canadian cities in the winter. Never before moving to Edmonton had I seen snow left behind down the middle AND sides of the streets. I agree with the previous poster. Go to St. John’s, or even Winnipeg. In Winnipeg, a parking ban means NO FREAKING PARKING ON THE STREET. Leave your car out, and you get towed or piled in. Edmonton also needs to stop approving neighbourhood developments that don’t allow for a parking ban. My grandparents lived in an old area of Winnipeg with a detached garage and a gravel back lane. That back lane was cleared within 24 hours of a major snowfall.
Get some experts, Edmonton, and whatever equipment they recommend. It’s clear that we’re still doing it wrong. (And make sure those experts are from a jurisdiction without a financial stake in the game!)
I think it should either be no parking; I am in favour of a parking ban on residential streets to have the snow removed. Or no clearing. I agree with a lot of people on here, this is Edmonton and it is going to snow and you should plan accordingly. I do not agree with the snow being cleared and people being able parking in front of the windrows it causes a safety hazard. In most places it is down to one lane and no where to go to let people pass because the streets are lined with cars. Especially on curvy roads when it is hard to see if anyone else is coming.
I would like to thank the city for finally blading my street. It was much appreciated especially after myself and 3 of my neighbors shoveled out the intersection entrance to our street and half way down in 2 hours on Friday night to alleviate people from continually getting stuck. The added help overnight last night certainly helps maneuver our street.
Here’s the thing…as much as it is appreciated, perhaps a little common sense would ensure things are done right the first time and thereby not wasting money because I fear it has be be done again. Allow me to explain.
In a high density area with narrow streets and where street parking is at a premium, it would make sense to blade that street during the day when the majority of the cars are gone. Instead, the City ran the blade overnight when there is no way to push the windrows to the sidewalk where they belong. This has resulted in an inability to get anyone’s cars out of the street parking or our driveways and to top it off, the nicely bladed lane is a single with no where to go to get out of the way of an oncoming car due to the windrows on the outside of the parked cars.
One would think since we have been a winter city since the dawn of time, this wouldn’t still be such an issue of efficiency with a total lack of common sense.
From the comments section, it looks like we have a lot of untapped snow removal expertise within our community.
Has anyone looked into the economics of this? I’m wondering what would a law requiring proper snow tires cost, vs. what it would save? On the cost side we have the tires, storage of your summer tires (annoying for people in apartments/etc.), changing the tires twice a year, etc. Also we have the issue of compliance, it won’t be 100%, I wonder what it would be. On the plus side for saving money we have: potentially less collisions, potentially less stuck cars (causing slow traffic/etc.), and potentially spending less money on snow clearing/removal from side streets and so on. Personally I have summer and winter tires, even in an old 2 wheel drive car I have no problem with winter driving (apart from navigating over the windrows to get into my driveway =).
My street has apparently been cleared. Even though I have a front driveway, there was no windrow to deal with when they were done. Probably because I simply can’t tell if they actually did anything. There were larger windrows than normal against the parked cars, but the street was still nearly impossible to navigate.
If this is considered snow clearing by the city, then they are asleep at the wheel of the plow truck. They spent employee time and taxpayer dollars to make the conditions on my street worse than they were before.
I suspect the number of parked cars was an issue for them, which frankly will always be an issue. If they expect to be able to efficiently plow these side streets then they should at least let residents know when to expect the plows to be making their way to your street. Parking bans are fine with me if this is the only way to handle this. Perhaps the tickets and storage fees from towed cars can help with the cost of clearing the snow.
Something needs to be done. Visitors of mine comment regularly how bad the streets are and openly wonder how a city in such a climate can do such a piss-poor job at something they KNOW will occur on a regular basis. It’s a source of embarrassment for myself and other residents and is completely indefensible.
“I am not aware of another Canadian city that clears small windrows from driveways.”…Go to Sherwood Park (Not technically a city, but city sized) Mr. Mayor, they plow the windrows on the side streets to the middle then pick them up with a snowblower. Arguably an even better solution than just clearing driveways. In stratcona they like to spend tax dollars on actual services rather than legacy projects to feed the ego of council members. Personally I wish you’d just leave the side streets alone…plowing my street in the middle of the night when it’s loaded with cars (there is simply not enough driveway parking in the neighbourhood) is especially confounding, definitely make life on my street worse for cars. Make no difference to me with a 4×4, but contrary to popular opinion we in Edmonton don’t all drive 4×4’s.
The city finally came and cleared the streets in my cul-de-sac last night. I do appreciate the effort or should I say “lack of effort”? They left windrows all over the block and in front of all the driveways. I couldn’t drive up or out of my driveway without having to shovel the windrows out first. I know this comes as a surprise to the city but not all of us have big 4×4 trucks. Leaving these windrows in front of peoples driveways is not cool.
My street has yet to be cleared, which is a frustration. Yes, I bought winter tires, however when the thickness of the snow pack is so great that my car is being destroyed bumper down, two weeks after the snowfall, and now we face more snow? Its exceptionally frustrating that this city can not get this right; this isn’t the first time the city has had snow, despite this we fall behind many cities such as Winnipeg in its snow removal capabilities. I have been patient, and called the city on Nov 26 to state my concerns of damaging my vehicle every time I leave; the operator noted (understandably) that they are doing their best and that it was scheduled to be cleaned on the 30th. Well, that came and went, I called on Sunday; the operator then told me ‘don’t worry, its being done tonight!’; OK, I will be patient. This morning, still not done, I checked our fantastic delusional map of blading, now its scheduled for the 2nd… Mayor Iveson; I would support efficient street cleaning (leaving a windrow) just so we can get in and out without incurring economic costs of detrimental accidents and damage to vehicles. I will personally volunteer to remove those windrows from persons unable to remove them due to health or other restrictions. I don’t know what other venue to pursue,
Sincerely,
At wits end.
This will be the most unpopular response, but is the most sensible solution.
The city is NOT responsible for parking spaces on residential streets. The various Mayors of Edmonton has said so several times before. What the city is responsible for are safe streets. Residential streets should all be Parking Permit Required – usually evenings after midnight to 6am. Your permit is good for 3 months at a time and usually around the $100 per quarter mark. The funds go to keeping the streets cleaned and repaired as well as to paying parking enforcement who go around and ticket the people who are parking without a permit. Parking on the 1st to 15th of the month is on one side of the street, 15th – 30th is the other. This allows both sides of the street to be cleared and prevents the 12 inch ++ bank of ice that cars have to try to navigate to get into a parking space.
In every other city, homeowners are responsible for their own driveways and sidewalks. It should be the same way here.
And while we are on this subject: please start issuing fines to businesses and residents that do not clear their sidewalks.
Everyone bellyaching about snow removal: your grandparents are rolling over in their graves over how weak humanity has become.
If you can’t drive in snow, then own that fact, and take the bus.
I am not aware of another Canadian city that clears small windrows from driveways.
What about windrows on side of the roads when you can’t drive and waste the whole lane because of it. Also When city says that they will tow the car from the No parking zone while snow cleaning, then please do so to clean it and don’t just go around it for a home owner to clean it.
This is how they clean snow in Ottawa by the way..
http://youtu.be/YpywjDM5GHw
http://ottawa.ca/en/roads
http://ottawa.ca/en/residents/transportation-and-parking/road-and-sidewalk-maintenance/snow-removal-and-disposal
I’m in favour of a parking ban on residential streets for snow removal.
As much as I want to love that the city blades the streets, I simply can’t. Not when the plow drivers zip through the neighbourhoods at 2AM, blocking in driveways and vehicles you didn’t get a chance to bleerily wake up and move.
Last week when they bladed my parent’s place, they left 2 foot high windrows blocking their driveway and vehicles in. My father has leukaemia and my mother has had knee and hip replacements and neither of them were in physical condition to dig through the foot-wide wall of ice the bladers left behind when they had to rush to hospital in the morning.
Don’t forget the entire lanes on main roads that simply no longer exist because of bladers dumping ice in them and driving off carefree.
If you’re going to pay someone to blade the roads, please make sure they’re doing it properly otherwise you’re just wasting everyone’s time and money and actually making things worse.
I decided to look up what Ottawa pays for snow removal, as 300 dollars an hour, quoted by Lloyd, seemed excessive. http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/07/31/live-snow-removers-up-in-arms-over-contracts
I live in Sherwood Park. I work in Edmonton. I am fortunate to live on a school bus route, and have already had our street cleared and the snow picked up. My neighbours immediately across from me, however, are dealing with an almost impassable road and if the past is an indicator, they will probably not get plowed out any time soon. I am waiting to see what happens tomorrow, with the addition of new snow.
Snow tires are amazing. I have never had them until last year, resisting them for a myriad of reasons, one being the cost. I went with an All WEATHER tire which you use all year round and is snow rated. No storage and no extra costs. It was a cheap and cheerful choice, and has made a huge difference to my ability to drive through the streets AND stick to the roads. Between parking congestion and lack of plowing, the last few years have been horrific to get to my job. I work near a post secondary school and a hospital, and the street parking on both sides of the streets is not conducive to driving on bare pavement, let alone in 8 inches of snow. Add to that about 16 school buses trying to get through the car lined roads…..mayhem is the only way to describe it. I would love to see these kinds of areas plowed, but where would the people park?
Last week, I and three other vehicles got stuck at the intersection of 93th street and 117th. It took us ten minutes to work our way out of the snow. One by one. We had all stopped, quite properly, at the intersection and it seemed that stop caused us to sink into the snow. Under it was sheer ice. How do I, who drives a smaller car with winter tires, manage in these conditions?
I have friends and family who are mobility impaired and live right downtown or by the University, and for the life of me I am at a loss as to how they manage to do ANYTHING in this city that involves crossing a road.
i have a quad with a snowblade on the back of my truck. if the city didn’t have laws against it, i could easily use it to assist the WHOLE neighbourhood with clearing snow from our back alleys and even sidewalks at a fraction of the time and effort it takes to do it by hand. But, NO CAN’T DO THAT. Might be a good time to re-evaluate some of the silly laws we have in place? i don’t care either way. i drive a 4×4 and my sidewalks aren’t too much to shovel by hand, although I am immensely grateful for my “snow angel” neighbour who does a big section of our back alley with his snow blower. Thank you to all you SNOW ANGELS giving a helping hand this year.
I believe a mandatory winter tire policy is in order for Alberta, or at least just the northern half. It’s a cost of living… you don’t complain about having to buy a winter coat when you move to a northern climate, so you shouldn’t complain about having to buy winter tires. When done correctly (changed at the right times) they keep the wear off your summer tires and can last multiple years, so it’s not really that big of a cost anyway.
Erik, I have the very best winter tires. Yet, I can still slide on the ice at the turn lane on 149 Street and 111 Avenue. My car still has trouble negotiating the as yet unplowed snow in the middle of my street, further hampered by the six trucks parked directly opposite my driveway (thank you, thoughtful neighbours). Yes, they help, but they are not a panacea to adequate (and I mean that, not GOOD) snow removal.
I remember in the 1970’s, when snow was hauled away, and dumped. I don’t understand why that does not occur now.
Either amend the bylaws to allow neighbours to pool money and plow their own streets, or change the way snow removal is handled. This is not an acceptable practice for a winter city. I also agree with residential bans in neighbourhoods on the days blading is to occur.
All in all, I would be embarrassed for Edmonton were I hosting anyone from another city, and they witnessed the dismal efforts, particularly in residential neighbourhoods.
Mayor Iveson.
I noticed that the entire city pretty much manages not to park on the parking ban streets during the parking ban. Sure not everyone is very good at it yet and there are still a couple infractions but as a LARGE LARGE majority… it is very clear that this is not a problem.
I would like to indicate then that it is *complete* bullshit when people say that you cannot remove parking from some of these very same streets so that the city can convert them to a bike lane. If the city manages to not park on all of the bus routes when there’s snow all over and it’s ridiculously cold outside for them to walk the extra half block to get where they’re going. It is very clearly the case that they can manage to park elsewhere when the weather is good and it is warm outside. I think you can take our winter capacity to comply for the common good of snow clearing as evidence that this city has a LARGE LARGE majority capable of cooperating for the common good and putting some bike lanes on those same routes with negligible ill effect so that our children are not being run over and killed by cement trucks because they have no safe and efficient way to transport themselves across the city.
The city CAN handle bike lanes.
There is little point in shovelling sidewalks, driveways and streets if the blading simply destroys our efforts.
The only time blading is necessary is when it becomes impossible to drive on the streets due to the ruts.
Remove the ruts, remove or move the bare amount of snow needed to clear those ruts.
Transferring it to windrows simply replaces one problem with a bigger one.
Maybe it is finally time to enforce some planning in new residential subdivisions:
One lot on each block to be set aside for the snow pile in the winter and a green area in the summer.
We already set that land aside now, we simply do not place it in the correct location in the neighbourhoods.
JKrabbe
Since you already have already taken us off the topic of Snow Removal, I am going to ensure the opposing viewpoint (and likely LARGE LARGE majority of Edmontonians) is voiced.
– Edmonton roads were not designed for bike lanes and it is more dangerous to add them now
– Just as one example, you have a car trying to turn right across a bike lane and a cyclist coming through. Who has the right of way? (no it’s not the same as pedestrians at a crosswalk as they are not going at the same speed as cyclists). If “share the road” actually worked, we would not need traffic laws in the first place. At least having the cyclist obey the same lanes and laws as cars (as has been for decades) is consistent. Having inconsistent rules of the road is a bigger danger. What’s next? Reindeer lanes?
– I have been a cyclist for years in this city and of course I have had challenges with those drivers that are idiots but no more so than when I am driving.
– Bike tires really aren’t made for snowy & icy roads
– In my experience there are more problem cyclists that can’t obey the laws and think they can drive anywhere/anytime (ie: not waiting in a line of traffic at a red light).
So when you do the math of a VERY FEW number of cyclists in this city vs the number of drivers……
1. don’t ride in the winter
2. there should not be bike lanes (even in the summer). Cyclists maybe try obeying the existing laws.
And regarding your comment about “ill effect to our children’…..those lanes which might be considered for bike lanes, are high volume traffic and children have no business being on/near them. Are you an irresponsible enough parent to put your children at that risk??
The Mayor is incorrect. The MacTaggart area has NOT been bladed, not once. I don’t care what the schedule says, i live on MacTaggart Place and the snow pack is well over 5cm…the ruts are at least 3 inches themselves. I have complained many times, and the answer is the same, “blading is completed”. I have asked Bob Dunford to come out and see for himself. He was supposed to do that today…December 9, and as of 9:30PM there has been no response. All I want is the street bladed just once, not 2 or 3 times. Why are areas being planned to be bladed a second time when the first one has not been done. And as i write this more snow is on the way. So when the new schedule for blading comes out…we’ll be completed yet again by that magic snow plow that no one sees, or leaves any evidence that it was even here. Do ostriches bury their head in the sand? Edmonton Snow Maintenance buries its head in the snow!
Mr.Iveson
You don’t anything about Edmonton Why don’t clean snow in Edmonton,in Toronto and Calgary they’re cleaning snow allow the time but except Edmonton only We don’t people to fall in the snow and get all of the time.Thank you
One more thing Mr.Iveson I Saw car accidents in Queen Elizabeth II Highway cause of the snow of course please clean Edmonton and keep it very clean so we can walk good in the snow with our winterboots Ok.Thank you
Being new to Edmonton, what happens now when the snow starts rapidly melting and the only path to the catch basin is blocked by meters and meters of windrows and it starts flooding the sidewalk, which of course, will freeze overnight? We have to keep our sidewalks free of ice and snow, I get that but is it our job to remove the windrows so the water has somewhere to go?
I can not believe that after a snow storm of 15 cm (Feb 14 am) there was not a grater to be seen up to11:30 am and we had to drive in all that snow, but after 2 days of warm weather and melting, I just had one of those graters wake me up at 12:45 am!! Snow removal=a real joke. Please put someone in charge who actually knows what he is doing.
Hardworking, tax paying, frustrated, trying to get back to sleep edmontonian…
Just a few quick thoughts:
1. There may be no perfect snow policy, but there are:
1.1. Processes and Specifications for continuous improvement, e.g. ISO 9001.
1.2. Flow charts e.g. If the snow accumulated is x and the probable next 24 hour snowfall is y, then do z.
1.3. Transparent indexed documentation online to prevent repeating past mistakes
1.4. Resources for researching best practices in other cities e.g. Google and Email
1.5. Processes for public input and review and online documentation before implementing any such “best” or other new practices.
2.1 Anyone without snow tires and/or 4WD and/or winter driving skills can and should wait a week or two after snowfall to venture out on our streets. That is why we have ETS.
2.2. Let snow accumulate to at least 6″ depth on residential streets before touching it..
3. Windrows at curbside obstruct drains, cause pools and skating rinks in the streets, and are a major cause of our pothole problems.
4. People with more vehicles than parking spaces should not be permitted to obstruct our roadways or public transit or emergency vehicles or snow removal in the slightest.
Im all for plowing neighborhoods, if it is done properly, leave windrows, thats fine, but put at least a little effort in. There is no way that most of residential streets in north Edmonton were left in exceptable condition. If they think they are making a positive difference they are either blind or out right stupid.