Late Transit ‘Night Ride’ Pilot Project

September 8th, 2011 in 2010-2013 Term, A city with better housing & transportation choices, A fair city, A profitable and prosperous city, Community Consultation, Transit

Route map – click to enlarge.

[Update: Sept. 29, 2011: The City announced yesterday that the pilot will run in January of next year. It means the pilot will have a full university term to be evaulated, and gives more time for neighbourhood input into how the program will be evaluated – one of the major questions that came up in the Sept. 7 public meeting and survey feedback. I support the pilot proceeding however I do not see this type of service as the ultimate format for late night transit. My first comment to the press yesterday was that in my opinion proper late night transit should be the the core routes like the 1, 2, 4, 8, and 9 running later, not a service like this tailored around the hospitality industry. Nevertheless, I can support the pilot going ahead as it will help us understand some of the issues and opportunities of running transit later into the night, and will inform Council’s eventual debate about what late-night transit should look like. Part of that debate will occur when the Late Night Transit Service Inquiry Cllr. Henderson and I submitted comes back to the Transportation Committee in November.]

At my request the City’s Responsible Hospitality Edmonton group held a public meeting last night on the Night Ride pilot originally slated to begin the first week of September.

I had intervened to postpone the project in light of the confusion and uncertainty about what was being proposed. This uncertainly led to fear on the part of the communities near Southgate, and the lack of consultation led to mistrust of the initiative, which I fully understand.

To be upfront, I support the general concept of late night transit, not just from hospitality zones but along key corridors in the city. This pilot could tell us some key things about actual demand and also how to deal with patrons at that time of night. However, if the pilot is a disaster in terms of negative impacts on adjacent residents, I will be the first person calling for its early termination.

I do believe last night’s meeting and the information now posted on-line have reassured some neighbours that many of their worst fears have been anticipated by the pilot’s designers. For example:

  • It’s not an express bus to Southgate – people will be getting off along the route and the buses are expected to be three-quarters empty by the time they get to Southgate.
  • Normal fares will apply – many people had reservations about it being a ‘free ride’.
  • Riders will not be unattended at Southgate – there will be security at Southgate transit centre.
  • The pedway from the transit centre across to the neighbourhood will not be open – it will not serve as a gangplank for strangers into the community to the west.

An FAQ is downloadable here as well with further details of what’s proposed.

I know that last night’s meeting didn’t convince everyone that this is a great idea. It wasn’t intended to. It was to hear concerns, take suggestions for how the pilot can be improved, and get community input on how it should be evaluated.

For those who were unable to attend the meeting there is also an on-line survey.

We heard that people are concerned that this pilot is just the thin edge of a wedge, and that the volumes of people could increase over time, so even if the impacts are minimized now they too will increase over time. We heard that the many residents would still like route to terminate elsewhere, and we heard that some would like it or loop back to Whyte somewhere further north and without a cab stand. We heard that some do not support running any form of late night transit under any circumstances.

We also heard from some who think that late night service is overdue in Edmonton and support a pilot to test the need and test what’s needed to make it safe and minimize impacts to neighbours. Representatives from the taxi industry also spoke in favour and suggested that the incentives are there for a good supply of cabs to keep people moving who need to travel further than Southgate.

So once the consultation feedback is in, and once any modifications are incorporated, my sense is that we should probably, with some provisos, give this a try. The provisos are based on what I heard last night and from earlier feedback:

  1. Again, if the pilot is a disaster in terms of negative impacts on adjacent residents, I will be the first person calling for its early termination.
  2. Just because Southgate is the terminus for the pilot, it doesn’t automatically mean that Southgate is the best place to terminate any future late night transit route that might be put in at some future date.
  3. Most importantly, the neighbourhoods adjacent must be included much more meaningfully in evaluating the pilot than they were on the planning of the pilot.

30 thoughts on “Late Transit ‘Night Ride’ Pilot Project”

  1. People who chose to drive should never have a vote in public transit. The city has over a million people and covers a greater area than SINGAPORE – we need comprehensive transit.

  2. Pretty good meeting. Jeff took way more ownership of the project than a facilitator should. I appreciate your calm(?) responsiveness to all comments.
    Proviso 3 is very important, but what will count as a legitimate or Night Ride associated issue?. I understand that our neighborhood will inevitably change because of its location. How public-serving should we expect it to get? I don’t see much of a plan for support of the transition: security, foot traffic, vehicle traffic/parking planning ahead of change implementation.
    I am concerned that there are no clear evaluation criteria. I understand this as a strong intention for this service to go ahead – with what ever modifications seem needed.

  3. Glad to see you guys making a concerted effort to inform and reassure the public that this is a positive initiative, Don. All too often in Edmonton, great pilot projects like this are hindered or halted due to reactionary, NIMBY-minded outcry from misinformed citizens. Holding information sessions to explain the facts is a step toward clearing up misconceptions, and hopefully making people realize that improved late-night transit is exactly what this city needs.

    Of course, you’ll never convince everyone here that increased public safety should outweigh their own personal comforts. Still, I appreciate the effort you’re putting in to make this project a reality.

  5. Patrons should not be forced off the bus at Southgate if they choose to loop back. This would prevent stranded patrons that might want to try their luck for a cab at another location. Specially important in winter. On the last loop, patrons still wishing to remain on the bus should be dropped off back on Whyte Ave or the nearest police station where the police presence can deal with these higher-risk patrons.

    Irresponsible of the City to not provide washroom facilities at Southgate. Its a 20 minute bus ride plus a potential wait for a cab.

    Irresponsible of the City to create a pilot that does not mimic a sustainable implementation (e.g. if providing security at this drop-off site will only be done at pilot time and is not feasible for post-pilot implementation.)

    Irresponsible of the City to create a new congregation zone for patrons within less than 100 yards of single family residences, primarily because of late night noise but also other incivilities.

    The tolerable level of incivilities inflicted on the east end of Malmo is a completely grey area, which means that there really aren’t any!

    There currently are no drafts of how incivilities at Southgate/Malmo will be measured or evaluated, yet we seem to be pressing to start the pilot ASAP.

    Full implementation should only be considered with a full public hearing.

    The “creep factor” of future volumes suggested by the operator of 4 cab companies here in Edmonton is extremely worrying. To the cab industry using buses as feeders is “the way of the future”. There currently are around up to around 10,000 patrons on Whyte Ave.

    Changing the cab fare structure to make longer trips as profitable as shorter trips, and providing a cab concierge service managed by a City Police or Provincial Sheriff in the large parking lot areas between 103 and 104 St on Whyte is a far better, safer and convenient solution.

    Our community has suffered enough for the benefit of the “greater good”.

  7. I am concerned that piloting late night transit in a way which is specifically geared to bar patrons is setting it up for failure. Moving that many drunk people around will, without a doubt, have negative community impacts. Doubly so since it’s just the one bus, not an actual late night transit system.

    If this program fails because the pilot was poorly thought out, it will be another 20 or 30 years before we give late night transit another go. And that’s just unacceptable.

    Late night transit is definitely a “go big or go home” item. Demand for a late night dead-end bus route is different from demand for late night transit.

  10. Let’s call a spade a spade. To experience the service commonly called the “Drunk Bus” in many other cities, do a video google search:

    video.google.com or video.google.ca

    with search term

    “drunk bus” -driver

  12. Unfortunately drunk patrons are far more likely to run away from paying a fare, reducing the number of cabs willing to offer entertainment district late-night service. Here is a potential solution …

    “The taxi driver can request a prepaid fare from the passenger and will be required to issue the passenger with a receipt for the prepaid amount,” the spokeswoman said.

    “The taxi meter would run as per normal, to identify the full final fare. At the end of the journey, any amount over the metered fare would be refunded to the customer in cash.” from http://wentworth-courier.whereilive.com.au/news/story/sydneys-taxi-trouble-drivers-cherry-picking-fares/

  13. The City FAQ still states that police will be on hand during the pilot, which Don said was not budget-sustainable beyond a brief introduction period. Let’s make this pilot realistic, as the audience at the Information Meeting loudly voiced and Don agreed with. Provide only what is sustainable in the long run and put resources into observing the outcomes rather than creating artificial outcomes.

  14. Considerable taxpayer resources went into the transportation demand survey of Whyte Ave patrons and apparently a map was created that visually depicts where folks need to go.

    Don, can you see to it that this gets posted to the City website immediately? The survey won’t be open much longer and we should have as much information as possible to form useful opinions. Thanks!

  15. Remember the last set of Whyte Ave riots? Police were quite busy shoving patrons onto buses to get them out of the area. This will be appreciated by future mobs as they get shoved on the Drunk Bus and shipped off to Southgate where a hastily arranged flash mob can go “shopping” at the Apple Store to get a once-in-lifetime ten finger discount. See http://techpresident.com/short-post/tottenham-rioters-blackberry-messaging-and-rise-flash-mob-something-scary
    and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOGzA5au3xU .

  16. Excerpt below from the City Of Victoria, BC’s REPORT OF THE
    Downtown Late Night Task Force
    Late Night…Great Night!
    Putting the Pieces Together
    November 16

    http://www.victoria.ca/cityhall/pdfs/taskforce-downtown-late-night-report.pdf

    The key excerpt is:

    “Taxi stands should be located in sites that are near late night businesses, present minimal noise impacts
    on residential neighbours, do not impede the flow of pedestrian traffic, and do not impact other vehicle traffic.”

    The whole excerpt under “Other Jurisdictions/Best Practices” is:

    Taxis
    Downtowns can benefit from the establishment of centralized taxi stands and transport centres. These stands are
    designated pick-up areas where taxis wait for fares. They should be supervised or marshalled for maximum safety
    and efficiency. They streamline travel in and out of an area, provide increased safety for traffic and pedestrians,
    more drinking driving intervention options, less congestion and relieve the burden on public transit. Some cities have
    added vibrancy to their taxi zones by including food vendors, which assists patrons who wish to eat at a time when
    restaurants are generally closed.
    Where intoxicated people congregate in large crowds, there is a high risk of confrontation and violence. In Leeds,
    England, they have a number of dispersed taxi stands to avoid this problem. London established a taxi stand which
    is marshaled from 10 p.m. to 3 a.m. on Friday and Saturday nights. Four hundred taxi trips are typically dispatched
    each weekend and the rank is considered a safe place to await transportation. Croydon, England has established
    marshaled central taxi stands to gather and dispatch taxis and minibuses.
    Taxi stands should be located in sites that are near late night businesses, present minimal noise impacts
    on residential neighbours, do not impede the flow of pedestrian traffic, and do not impact other vehicle traffic.
    Consideration should be given to preventing disorder where inebriated persons await transportation.
    Good lighting, supervision and closed circuit televisions may help if a central transportation hub is created.
    Alternatively, if supervision is not feasible, several sites for taxi stands should be considered as not to create
    one large gathering spot.
    Alternative Transportation
    A hospitality zone or downtown entertainment district’s success in attracting patrons is directly related to access
    to safe and efficient transportation. The greater the options for transportation in and out of the area, the greater the
    reductions in congestion and the potential for crowd-related problems.
    Car travel is the dominant mode of transport, and a shift to alternative modes can be a challenge in our cardependent
    society. Options include shuttles and minibuses (following a path of stops throughout the zone
    as opposed to just one spot), limousine services, buses and other shared-ride services (i.e., mass transit).
    Routes and pickup locations should be well publicized in the community and at late night venues.
    A number of US cities have introduced enhanced “taxi” services. In Detroit, several late night transportation
    services have been started by young entrepreneurs and students. They emphasize a good service and fun.
    They use 14 passenger vans, operate from 8 or 9 p.m. until 2:30 a.m. – 4 a.m., and charge a nominal fee.
    In Mount Pleasant, Michigan (population 26,000) university students started several taxi companies in response
    to the lack of late night transportation. They also focus on service and a fun experience. Cabs hold up to
    14 passengers and cost $3 a ride and run until 4 a.m. on weekends.
    There are many innovative options for expanding transportation alternatives. The Responsible Hospitality Institute
    (RHI), a leading non-profit organization that assists cities to plan, manage or police dining and entertainment
    districts, has noted a number of promising practices that are being tried in the US:
    • Chauffeured ride in your own vehicle – enables potentially impaired drivers to get home safely
    • Fixed route loop shuttle – often connected to a university and financed in part by student fees
    • Student run Safe Ride program – program uses donated rental cars and is financed in part
    through corporate sponsorships
    • Shared valet parking services
    • Shared cab rides
    • Sponsored rides home (free taxis) and to and from sporting events (mini-buses)

  18. More of a question than a comment … did the $3 late-night cab surcharge make a significant impact on the number of cabs offering late night service OR is the real underlying problem that cab drivers don’t feel safe dealing with inebriates without sufficient safety measures/devices.

  19. Don, after reading and considering the City Of Victoria, BC’s REPORT OF THE Downtown Late Night Task Force
    Late Night…Great Night! Report mentioned above, please call for the following changes to the pilot:
    1) Make the bus-route a loop that services a larger area near the entertainment district
    2) Centralized taxi stand, supervised by Sheriffs or Police

    Please remove your support for the current design of this pilot.

    If only our City staff had done a professional a job as the City of Victoria … a City with smaller scale problems and far less resources than ours … sigh.

  20. I wanted to second Neil’s comments from Sept 9. This feels like an attempt to circumvent council’s decision to hold off on late night transit. I am supportive of late night transit in general, however the narrow scope and disjointed nature of the pilot could set late night transit backwards. It gives the impression to many that it is primarily motivated by entertainment district image management, a point reinforced by the 11th hour involvement of impacted communities. If things go badly, there will be little to differentiate this initiative from a city wide approach to late night transit. Perhaps it may be better for the long-term success of late night transit to delay this pilot, develop a pilot with a broader scope, and involve a wider spectrum of those that benefit and are impacted from an early stage (e.g. downstream communities, other late night/24 hr businesses).

    Let’s start late night transit off on the right foot, even if it means waiting a while.

  21. The City Responsible Hospitality group probably have a membership in the “Responsible Hospitality Institute” http://rhiresource.org/ which publishes member-access-only resources including how to manage transportation and more specifically Taxi Stands. If the Taxi Stands information could be shared with us, that could be very helpful.

  22. A simple solution to the taxi availability problem: effective staggered closing times. The current “soft” staggered closing times have little effect.

    Lets say you want 3 different closing times. The numeric address of an establishment is divided by 3 and only the remainder is considered – this becomes your Closing Time ID. Today the 0’s close at 1am, the 1’s at 1:30 am and the 2’s at 2:00 am. Tomorrow everything shuffles position, the 0’s close at 1:30am, the 1’s at 2 am, and the 2’s at 1am. The shifting continues for fairness. City inspectors can revoke the business licenses if the closing hours are breached.

    Similar approaches are effective for traffic congestion in other places of the world where the last digit of your plate can determine whether you can drive in congested zones on a particular day.

  23. Question on City Process:

    Once the Pilot design is finalized will it be submitted to:
    1) A Risk Analyst in the Risk Management Section for final review and
    2) Transportation and Public Works Standing committee to ensure that the associated costs of rolling this design out for post-pilot implementation are sustainable and in-line with current late-transit plans?

  24. The more I read about the Late Night Service the more I become disappointed that people like Mr. Khan are given platforms, like this, to ramble on and on. Mr. Khan, do you have children that are 18 years of age or older? Well, I do. And I take great exception that you assume that every patron of the clubs/bars on Whyte Avenue get slobbering drunk, urinate everywhere, vandalize everything in sight, fight etc. How dare you assume that these people will want to come into your neighbourhood to rape and pillage all the good citizens of Malmo and cause wanton destruction. The vast majority of the patrons are people that just want to go out and have a good time. Do you remember when you were young and wanted to go out with your friends to have a few drinks, meet other people, dance, listen to music, in other words, just have fun? I have raised my kids to be responsible and the values that I have instilled are passed on to their friends, in that they know that if they have even one drink or even half a drink that they will never ever drive and that regardless of the time they will call me or my wife to come get them. Which we happily do because I know that they will be okay getting home. Now along comes the City and wants to provide a bus service to move the patrons of Whyte Avenue home or closer to home. I applaud this initiative as now I know my kids would be able to safely take the bus to get to Southgate where I can pick them up from there instead of adding to the traffic issues on Whyte Avenue. Once again you think that the buses would be moving the problem from Whyte Avenue to Southgate. Well, my guess is that the majoirty of the bus passengers would be University students living on campus and by the time the bus gets to Southgate it will be basically empty. One more comment Mr. Khan. Do you have the same concerns with hockey games, football games, festivals? People drink at all these functions. I remember one Oiler game I went to where I went to buy a pop for my son and the guy in front of me was telling his girlfriend that he was just getting two more beer and that 12 was his limit. And I am sure he wasn’t the only one as the beer sales at these events are insane. Did you notice any issues in Malmo at that time….no you did not and you will not notice any issues once this bus service is implemented.

    So Councillor Iveson, I would appreciate if from now on that you and your other collegues plus the general public stop assuming that everyone who goes to Whyte Avenue or Jasper Avenue are violent, distructive drunks. Yes there are a few of those but it should not take away from the fact that most are upstanding citizens that just want to have a good time and want a quick, safe and reliable way to get home at the end of the evening without having to drive while under the influence.

  25. To Bob above …
    yes, I have 2 children over 18 living at home …
    No, I don’t assume everyone will be highly intoxicated
    No, I don’t object to the service if it was properly designed (no terminus, but a loop, not everyone forced off the bus where there are no late night-businesses, washrooms)
    Yes, I think we need this service, but designed with known best-practices
    Yes, I would like Southgate to be a stop on the loop
    Yes, We have more issues with transients in our neighbourhood now
    Yes, I object to your “rambling” comment, did I repeat matter which was not pertinent?
    Yes, My content was reviewed by Don or his staff before it was published.

  27. Calgary’s approach is to put the taxi stands close to where the patrons party – see http://www.centrecitytalk.com/my_weblog/2010/12/late-night-ride-home-stands.html

    Edmonton’s approach seems to be to scatter taxi stands around the city and bus patrons there, starting with the Southgate taxi stand pilot. Say, aren’t we in a winter climate and waiting outside for transportation, not once, but twice seems a little warped?

    Who’s got it right? …. speak out and stay tuned ….

  28. While we have to start somewhere, I think the real answer is just to run the major routes 24/7 perhaps with less frequency. The 1 or 2, 4, 8, 9,LRT and maybe 5 or some other bus that runs to the northwest should be 24/7.

    20 – 30 minute frequency on the LRT and 30-45 minute frequency on the buses would cover it and get most people fairly close to where they need to go. Possibly with higher frequency from 1 – 330 on Friday and Saturday night..

  29. The only really controversial part of the NightRide pilot proposal has been the taxi-stand next to a quiet, removed, community.

    The “best practices” below were gleaned by listening to this “Taxi Service Strategies” webinar sponsored by the “Responsible Hospitability Institute” (http://rhiwebinar.org/webinar/2010/transport.html). Subject-matter experts from Brisbane, New York and Calgary provided their successful strategies. Brisbane appeared to be the most advanced in terms of their practices, services and successes.

    Issues & Best Practice & Source

    Funding Sources – the cost of funding a Secure Taxi Stand is approximately $50,000 to $60,000 per Secure Taxi Stand plus overhead. Brisbane spends close to $800,000 per year total on approximately 10 Secure Taxi Stands. (The Aussie dollar is close in value to the Canadian dollar). A mix of public and private funding. New York pays for the additional costs exclusively through levies collected by the entertainment districts associations (aka Business Improvement District). In Brisbane there are funding sources from public safety agencies, as this is very much a public safety issue (getting people home quickly, orderly, and safely). Getting home quickly reduces the chances that 1) a patron will be frustrated by a lack of order or timeliness, 2) frustration and/or drinking-related crime and 3) that a patron will be a victim of a crime.

    Brisbane noted that Secure Taxi Stands are a 2nd choice substitute to the more costly alternative of more police on the entertainment district night beat.

    Driver Safety / Insufficient Cabs Brisbane: Primary cause for insufficient cabs was that drivers did not feel safe. Brisbane invests heavily in branded “Secure Taxi Stands” in the entertainment district. See more below as there are many related issues & best practices.

    “Secure Taxi Stands” – Staffing & Roles Brisbane: The Taxi Stand Supervisor is a taxi driver that has at least 4 years experience. He is primarily responsible for screening “fitness to ride”, opening doors, and providing payment information. At least one security-guard is required, sometimes several. Their primary job is to protect the Taxi Stand Supervisor (with muscle and 2 way radios to police dispatch), and secondly for crowd control. Calgary: Taxi Inspectors are also Peace Officers able to detain misbehaving patrons.

    “Secure Taxi Stands” – Orderly Queuing Brisbane has physical barriers that maintain order and reduce queue jumping manned by security personnel (one or more per stand). Security personnel have quick convenient access to police services via 2-way radio.

    “Secure Taxi Stands” – Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design Considerations Brisbane: Area is well lit and monitored by CCTV (to provide court evidence of misbehavior). On-hand security provides security, not CCTV.

    Assurance of Payment / Insufficient Cabs Brisbane Secure Taxi Stand Supervisors assess ability of patrons to pay before they allow them in the cab. May require pre-payment for cabs in future (like gas stations). Shared rides always require pre-payment (but offer fixed rates based on destination zones and degree of sharing destinations).

    “Fitness to Ride” / Insufficient Cabs Brisbane: Secure Taxi Stand Supervisors assess patrons to determine if they are “fit to ride”. Those a little green around the gills, or aggressive/angry are asked to sit out or stand-by for 20 minutes or so for observation and assessment. Politeness to these patrons is critical.
    If they are eventually deemed fit to ride by the supervisor, they go to the head of the queue, not the back (very important).
    If they are not deemed fit to ride, the police are called to deal with them.
    “Fitness to Ride” also includes assessing “Fitness to Pay”, if there is some doubt in that area.

    Shared Rides / Hybrid Bus/Taxi Service / Insufficient Cabs Brisbane: Since people often go out in groups to party and bar-hop, it makes sense to offer a hybrid between a bus and a taxi service that allows transportation for small groups. This has been enormously successful.

    The NightLink FlatFare taxi service is a new way to get people home late on Friday and Saturday nights. Passengers can pay a flat fare rate to share the ride home with other people going in the same direction. FlatFare taxi services are ‘share ride’ and not a personalised taxi service.
    FlatFare services offer:
    * Single fare – a per person fare
    * Couples fare – per two people
    * Group fare – for groups of five or more people travelling to the same location.
    Single passengers and couples using the service will be required to wait until the taxi stand supervisor forms a suitable group going in the same general direction to share the taxi.
    For details see http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Travel-and-transport/Taxis/Safety-initiatives/Nightlink-flatfare.aspx

    Economic Reward / Insufficient Cabs New York: Ensure the difference between the regulated cab lease rate to the drivers and the regulated fares allow drivers to make an honest wage, allowing for slow and good days.

    Avoid flat-rate surcharges because:
    1) Causes cabbies to focus on providing shorter trips – reduces customer service in cities with urban sprawl.
    2) Difficult to remove once in place, becomes counter-productive.
    3) Has little long-term impact if safety issues are not dealt with (the underlying major cause of insufficient cabs).

    Increase Supply / Insufficient Cabs New York (contemplation): Engage other livery services besides cabs. Vancouver is entertaining letting suburban Taxis provide late-night service (not covered in the webinar).

    Drinking establishments responsibility for patrons does not stop at the door. New York: Some establishments / events provide pre-payment of cab-fare through vouchers.
    Calgary: Tracing misbehavior to the root causes– strong integration and information sharing between Taxi Inspectors who are also Peace Officers, Police and Business/ Liquor License Enforcement.

    Branding “Secure Taxi Stands” / Communications Brisbane: Media packages for patrons. Information packages for cabbies outlining new protocols and to convince them to return to providing late-night service.

    Public Urination Brisbane: Focus on well-funded and staffed Taxi stands in the entertainment district that get patrons on their way quickly. (Only the airport taxi stands have washroom facilities).

    Traffic Congestion for Cabs Brisbane: One lane for 1-3 city blocks are blocked off (expanded as needed) for the screening/loading area and staging area of the cabs/vans.

    Enforcement Integration Calgary: Taxi Inspectors are also Peace Officers and integrate with Police Services. Taxi Inspectors are active at late night service time helping secure Taxi Stands.

    Intelligent GPS Devices / Efficiency & Profitable Business New York and Brisbane have mandated GPS devices in the cabs that tell the driver of opportunities for riders nearby their current location. Taxi stands, venues provide data to the system. Potential for a future “virtual hail a cab” system through smart-phones.

    Transportation Planning Brisbane: Individual Transportation Plans (including Taxi service) are mandated for entertainment districts and large sporting events venues.

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