The next steps on Northlands
UPDATE: Thank you all for your insightful feedback on the blog post below! As a follow up to this proposed motion, I received a letter of support from Hockey Canada for the Coliseum repurposing. You can read the letter here: Hockey Canada letter.
Tomorrow, City Council will be discussing a series of proposals from Northlands to re-imagine the 160 acres it occupies in northeast Edmonton. In order to move forward I am recommending the following approach, in the form of a motion for Council to consider. It’s not typical practice to float motions ahead of a public hearing, but I wanted to provide the public, Northlands, and other stakeholders with opportunity to provide input on this motion as part of the hearing.
This motion aims for a number of outcomes, including: taking immediate steps to secure long-term vitality for the surrounding communities, providing opportunities for Northlands to shift course toward sustainability, and securing a more prosperous future for Edmonton’s event, convention and tourism businesses by uniting the convention centres.
Curious for your thoughts on the below:
That Administration:
- Prepare a program statement and begin preliminary design to repurpose the Coliseum into a multiplex arena, pending securing necessary consent from Edmonton Northlands (Northlands) and Edmonton Arena Corp. This work should consult with the public and user groups, and explore partnerships with interested hockey and other amateur sports organizations. Report back to Council in Q4 2016 with a proposed project scope and budget profile to advance detailed design.
- Work with Northlands and Edmonton Economic Development Corporation (EEDC), with input from the Government of Alberta, to build on existing studies and evaluate best practices for Convention & Event authorities, and bring a recommended model for integration of the Expo Centre and Shaw Conference Centre (and any other relevant public components) to maximize economic impact and community benefit – potentially under the management of Northlands, or EEDC, or under a new agency. Report back to Council Q1 2017.
- Bring forward a report with Terms of Reference and cost estimates for a new Area Redevelopment Plan, to address repurposing and development options for the horse barns and racetrack site, and any other surplus lands, with special regard to the interface with surrounding communities. Report back to Council Q4, 2016.
- Bring forward the necessary approvals required, as soon as practicable, to grant one year of deferral on EXPO centre debt payments from Northlands, subject to their participation in work outlined above, and subject to implementation of their governance reforms. That a further year of debt deferral be contingent on Northlands Board’s submission of a sustainable business plan to Council by June 30 of 2017. Report back on the recommended conditions and steps required at September 20, 2016 Council meeting.
69 thoughts on “The next steps on Northlands”
Comments are closed.
The coliseum (recall place) should be demolished and turned into a sustainable community such as Blashford. Edmonton does not need another multi purpose sport facility to be supported by tax payers.
I am happy that yegcc wants to help Northlands. It feels like they think they can do a better job than Northlands though ..ie. come up with better plans and solutions for sustainability and I strongly caution that thought. True collaboration is always the way to develop a workable new vision. Imposed change rarely the way to go.
I’d rather that Northlands’ incorporation be examined explicitly as part of the second point (it may be implicit). The Agricultural Society incorporation has many exceptions to transparency and accountability for an organization so dependent upon public money. We need a better, more accountable governance structure in place if we want them to be responsible stewards of the assets they own and the public money they borrow/receive in the future. Arguably, they are not primarily (or even mostly) an agricultural-related organization anymore, and the governance should support the outcomes we need now, not the ones needed for the Edmonton of 100 years ago.
Unfortunately, in the last few years, with the ability to book concerts, with hockey, farmfair, K-Days, etc, Northlands has failed to make a profit. They showed they couldn’t predict the viability of a new EXPO Centre and I have no confidence that they could successfully operate the Shaw Comference Centre. The multi-ice arena is a good idea but EEDC show take over EXPO Centre. Sell the race track/barns land to developers or turn it into parkland.
Developing healthy lifestyles we know is very important for children, youth and adults. A Multiplex will do this. Adults currently booking usage times at midnight isn’t healthy. Children playing sports 2-3 hours past their bedtimes isn’t healthy. My son was forced to stop playing arena sports due to the 11:30 pm times we are getting to bed. Too late for me let alone him! This facility is on an LRT line so it is accessible to and from everywhere in the city, even those with hockey bags.
If a multi plex arena can secure things like world junior hockey tournaments and other like events as well as ensuring we provide adequate capacity for minor hockey, then it makes absolute sense to invest. This facility should not compete with the downtown arena, we’re not a mega city and can’t supply two competing venues.
Northlands gets 20 million in grants per year and still can pay the interest on the city loan, while horse racing creates at least $4.8 million in profit to their bottom line they find it uneconomical, mayor iveson when i hand delivered the condemning of the low income housing for track workers document 2 years you read it and commented about the viability of their operations, please clean house and borrow a city street sweeper since a broom is only the tip of the iceberg on their financial woes, in councillor nickel i trust!!!
I like the idea of more sustainable/green model housing, thought that’s maybe not the best use of the horse barns land. And while I can see the potential for better convention space integration, I am unconvinced of the potential for more tax-payer funded sports/recreation complexes. I would need to see how that model will create real quality employment for locals, sustainable careers for a range of educational and skills backgrounds. I would need to see how this would impact the local communities and that the process would include structured, authoritative input from the community leagues, many of whom might prefer city tax funds be invested in improving *local* recreation facilities and maker-spaces, not another Commonwealth-Kinsman type megaplex. So, while it’s a positive move, I’m not yet convinced it’s not sending good resources after bad.
I also wonder if that site might not be better used as a solar-powered urban farm? Or a combination of green-industry and small business maker-spaces (a solar-powered bicycle fabrication or micro-wind generator business? ) 160 acres of prime real estate well serviced by roads & public transit can be many things, and it doesn’t have to be more of the same.
I keep hearing that Northlands was built on Edmonton money. For those that do not remember Northlands is an agricultural society. There is a huge amount of Agriculture grants that went into the facility. Will Edmonton reimbursement the Agriculture society the money invested into Northlands to build a new facility if Agriculture has no more accessibility to the the grounds for Ag events?
I’d like to ke to see some of the surfaces used for soccer. We are also short of public indoor fields.
Mayor Iveson
I provide this feedback as a taxpayer in the City of Edmonton. Your motion is reasonable- the two “winner” ideas here are (1) the MultiPlex and (2) integration of the two convention facilities.
On the area redevelopment, repurposing, etc., let’s see what administration and Northlands come back with. I’d vote for your motion.
It’s interesting to me, in all the discussions from Northlands, how often they bring up the spirit and heritage of the organization. The actual plan for the actual land was… well, it was bad. I’m less confident than ever about Northlands, which for my lifetime in Edmonton (I’m 38) has been about tall fences and a festival that was never really about anything but itself — unlike the real ones like the Fringe, Heritage Days. Look how the Fringe changed its neighbourhood in 35 years versus what Northlands has done to areas around it… hoo boy! Says it all.
I would really like to see us get creative, to invite proposals from architects and developers, to have them look at what Edmonton most needs and means and go from there. How can we tie this development to our plans, to who we are? How can we best involve the private sector? How can we best integrate this sea of concrete and parking spots and tall fences into Borden Park, 118th Avenue, downtown?
We can build this into a place where people work and live, and instead of sinking hundreds of millions of public dollars into it we can work with the development community who can build something other than greenbelt development. Obviously, we could bring back the agricultural component to this agricultural chunk of land. This can be a food and agriculture place, to experiment, to visit. The ultimate farmers market. Community gardens. Greenhouses. A food lab? For testing products and concepts?
I fear transforming the coliseum into a multiplex just preserves the parking lot for another generation. Frankly, the people I know who spend thousands of dollars every year on hockey live in the suburbs. Why preserve the hockey legacy when we’ve moved that temple downtown? Let’s go back farther, to agriculture, to community leagues, to ideas. Let’s enter Edmonton’s future, not force a future for Northlands.
It should be the new hub community. Partner with a developer to create community based living neighborhoods.
The arena should be redeveloped and run by the City. I doubt Northlands plans for tournaments is realistic. However, there is more than enough local demand for ice. Each of those 6 sheets would be full 14 hours a day, 7 days a week. At $250/hr that’s over $7 million a year in revenue. Considering it costs well over $100 million to build a rec center with two sheets of ice, ~$110 million seems like a good investment (it would pay for itself in 15 – 20 yrs). In addition there is parking, LRT access, and enough people should be there to support some places to eat, sharpen skates, etc. I have no faith in any of the other Northlands proposals. They are half baked and completely unrealistic. Disband Northlands.
I think that both option 2 and 3 should be explored further together.
From a business perspective, option 2 makes sense.
In regards to option 3, I think it’s a great opportunity to re-purpose the land into a transit-oriented development. This doesn’t mean the entire demolition of the site, but perhaps using one of its fixtures, namely the Expo Centre as a community hub. This aligns with the city’s vision to develop brownfields, add density and encourage transit use. While studies are done to determine its viability, the land could be used as a paid park and ride lot.
In essence, option 2 can be viewed as a short term solution and option 3 is a long term plan to deal with the issue.
Ok, well we have an exit of the Oilers from the northlands venue. They are moving forward and making the team sustainable. Under the northlands umbrela it was all about northlands, all sales and all business done inside went to northlands and not the team.
The team still had to substain its self under the many owners it has had over the years. Katz is making sure this team will thrive. Leaving northlands the best for the team and this city.
Now northlands being unsure about thier own future have come up with this 2020 vision. A race track converted to a outside stage for 6months of the year, and a arena changed to a muiltuse complex. They also have this newly built expo centre.
First, closing the racetrack is a mistake, it needs to be rebranded, and maybe a different devoloper needs to take over and step it up, or maybe they could do both. Shutdown the racetrack for a weekend and hold a outside concert in the middle. There is no way this city can support that much land space for concerts alone.
The converting of the arena, well it is a dollar issue, they want money for the change to the building. I remember when the arena was first looked at, it would of been $300+million to bring the current standing arena up to todays standards, or spend $450 in a joint venture and get something shiny and brand new. The question was always what we do with the old one, and i think like a old car on its last legs it is time the let it go and part it out. As much as i want to see ice at the location, i think the building is at the end of its life. Tear it down and start over. And i think thats what northlands needs to do.
Rebrand and change who they are and start fresh.
Stuff like the edmonton comic and movie expo is amazing and maybe the site can become a entire convention centre.
Why is the mayor kissing their butte. They no longer deserve to exist. Let them fade away. Racing has a history that dates back to 1890. They don’t care about history or tradition of what Edmonton once was. It blows my mind that they just ignore 125 years of our past. I hope all those poor people that were fired from their jobs as parking attendants win their law suit and northlands has to beg this goof ball mayor to pay for that too. And he will because he is so unaware of northlands and their failure as business people. I can’t wait for the next election so I can vote for anyone else but Him
It now comes to light how completely jKatz screwed Edmonton. There was no other potential city which would give Katz incredibly
loyal fans selling out every single game even at outrageous ticket prices. And the deal gives Katz all parking and concession revenues plus all tickets proceeds from even non hockey events like Oprah Winfrey. It’s clear he loves his billions and wants more even though his legal sharks already raped the city financially.at the pockets of average edmontonians. It’s clear why Mandel did not run for mayor again. He would have been annilated the anger against his betrayal to the city and taxpayers is so strong some kid destroyed him in Riverbend in the election.
Now for northlands, taxpayers are fed up with grandiose schemes that are doomed to fail and flush hundreds of millions of more dollars down the toilet. The taxpayers are already overburdened
The answer is enough is enough and NO!
In the coliseum I would like to see more indoor turf for soccer, rugby or football to train/play year round.
I support Farm Fair and related events that support Agriculture, but horse racing is not self sustaining so it should be dropped.
I fully support the mayor in his proposals
There seems to be a group hypnosis about making a multi-sheet rink to support a few thousand hockey “families” – at a huge taxpayer subsidy to the rest of the city. Let’s really step back and look at the entire site and see what could be done with it. An agricultural and sustainability research farm with the Expo centre forming the administration and processing nexus? A new urban community with LRT access built in? A new urban forest?
Give Northlands their debt-forgiveness, conditional on their dissolution.
Think beyond building a legacy of parking lots and aging rinks.
This seems like a prudent course of action, assuming Northlands chooses to operate until 2017 without the loan payment and the City subsidy for hosting the Oilers.
Re: receiving sustainable business model proposal, one could argue they prepared that already, a proposal which your motion implicitly rejects. Perhaps “receive proposed business model…acceptable to the City” would better reflect intent of 2nd deferral?
Re: preliminary design, I would seek consensus from Council that the money Administration has identified is less than the money targeted for existing ice arena improvements and replacements for NE Edmonton over a period of time (~35 years). I assume that capital funds spent on a new multiplex is capital money not spent on other indoor ice facilities, unless I misread the report suggesting a multiplex would not be a major asset outside its use for Edmonton residents (i.e. not drawing multiple major events). If the same money can be spent on local community rinks instead of a single multiplex, I would not support even a preliminary design effort. If design proceeds, the report should recommend which community rinks should not be funded due to the investment in a multiplex. To that end, combining this design and the effort to draft a new community arena strategy (the last one was from 2007?) makes sense.
I suspect Northlands make object to any land they manage being declared “surplus” before the organization has a chance to deliver the business plan requested. Since a prelim design may deem the current arena space “surplus” as well, reframing the paragraph to refer generally to Northlands land/region may be more appropriate.
I accept that this land may be left vacant for a decade while Blanchford is built out and sold to Edmontonians. I do not believe the City needs to develop this land; selling the parcel in whole or in parts to developers is a reasonable option. Given that the City will not achieve its outstanding vision for Blanchford, it’s reasonable to assume the City would fail to achieve a similar vision for Northlands that citizens aspire to. A sale could incorporate site design as a key criteria, rather than a simple auction to the highest bidder; declaring all bids “unacceptable” if nec. would push bidders to maximize design over profit.
Mayor iverson
I am in agreement with your motions to council. The repurposing of rexal is a logical solution to the city wide need for a more community ice facilities. It is currently served by major transit so I see no issue for access by the citizens of edmonton. As to enhancing the smaller arena in the agriplex I think that is a logical solution that has been a long time coming. There are many concerts that need a 5,000 seat venue and thus would serve that purpose.
I am not in agreement with closing the race track. I attended the last derby and I believe a strong business case could be presented to save and enhance racing at this venue. Northlands has a free property asset, a gaming license that provides revenue opportunity. Put the thinking caps on and work with it.
Mr Iveson,
I commend you for identifying that Edmonton is in need of a Tourism, Events and Convention authority that not only brings all our public assembly facilities under one umbrella, but also focuses on a unified approach to event attraction for the city. This will make Edmonton much more competitive, and ensure our venues run much more efficiently.
In regards to who should oversee this organization, it’s imperative that a new entity be formed to oversee the operations of this organization. Northlands has proven that their business is broken, and it does not make sense for a failing business to take on an expanded role. Additionally, EEDC should focus on their expertise; trade & investment and supporting entrepreneurial initiatives. The danger in placing public assembly facilities under EEDC is you create an organization that is too large and therefore cannot function efficiently. This is what has happened to Northlands, and would happen to EEDC. In fact, their history has proven this. A new entity would allow the City to bring Edmonton’s best event and venue professionals together to maximize economic impact and competitiveness for our city.
I would hope that you consult with Edmonton’s industry leading professionals, including Lisanne Lewis of the Shaw Conference Centre, Brett Fraser of the Northern Alberta Jubilee Auditorium, Tom Cornwall of the Oilers Entertainment Group. They bring great wisdom and can leverage their relationships with venue professionals from other cities who have created similar entities, and help do what is best for our city.
Thank you for your leadership.
Why in the world cannot the City look honestly into Northlands mis-management of funds and their lies? They keep saying they lose money on racing – really??? They continue to divert funds into other areas to make it look like a money-losing venture to support Mr. Reid’s and now apparently, Mr. Iveson’s personal agendas and ideologies of killing agriculture venues within the city. I thought Mr. Reid was the biggest problem and have been calling for his termination for months, however, it appears Mr. Iveson should be gone right along with him. Take a look at all of your other failed ventures – Blatchford, Kingsway LRT, etc. and the list goes on….how does the potential redevelopment of Northlands shape up to be any different? It is time that a lot of you do not get re-elected. This city has gone to hell in a hand basket….
Mayor Iveson,
Well thought out and articulated; appreciate breaking out the Northlands file into three distinct business units.
Smart, strategic and passes the Smart Common Sense Test, required.
Rick P.
So long as redevelopment of the colliseum doesn’t preclude the planned construction of ice rinks elsewhere in the city, I support evaluating it’s conversion to a multi ice facility. The Expo centre is built and (mostly) paid for, so combining it’s management with that of the Shaw Centre seems like a good idea. The racetrack area should be developed into infill residential.
Regarding the city investing money into the Coliseum, does north east Edmonton need 6 additional ice surfaces? If the city is going to be building new ice surfaces, any analysis by administration should consider demand for ice and where that demand is in the city. For example, the study may determine that there is only demand for 3 new rinks and the demand is on the opposite side of the city. If the city wants to build new ice surfaces, just because the Coliseum is there, does not automatically mean that is where any new ice surfaces should go or that it is necessarily the lowest cost option for those ice surfaces. Get administration to perform the analysis to figure out how much more ice is needed, where it is needed and what the various options cost.
The administration should also consider the costs and benefits of Edmonton working with Northlands at all or in different capacities vs. doing any redevelopment or management of the EXPO center without Northland’s involvement. It is not clear what Northlands brings to the table as a partner so there needs to be a business case justifying why the city should continue to work with them.
The plans for Rexall Place (Northlands Ice Coliseum) are solid and will help ease the shortage of ice time in our city.
EXPO Centre is fine as is (no need for expansion) and I absolutely agree that there should be a working partnership with Shaw Conference Centre and other facilities.
As for the track – it makes ZERO sense to make it a festival site.
Well Well, unintended consequences rears its ugly head ! Why not pretend We are starting over ! Look at the asset and its worth, look at Northlands worth and move on ! highest and best use ! Better yet ask yourself ” What would Katz do ? ” There is a thought, Give the land to Katz ! Buggy whips and Black Model Ts ! Good luck !
I am currently putting a petition in place to have Rexall Place, Re-Developed into a Major Community Recreation Center.
I would like to see this in my area, there is currently nothing going for Northeast Edmonton- But prostitution.
You will see Business`s close down & the area will become more rugged then ever before. I believe that if the arena is re-developed into a Major Community Rec. Center, it would give plenty of opportunity to this side of the city.
We would see major growth in young families, Major growth in small business`s, Major growth in the foot traffic & the area would shape up as well. We could perhaps see less crime & more economic opportunities for this particular area of northeast Edmonton.
The idea would become way more profitable and popular, considering the area around the old Rexall is filled with schools.
You would see Transit services to the new proposed re-developed building, possibly sky rocket.
I would say, this part of Edmonton would become another popular part of town.
I really would like to see this done, it has many many many major perks.
Mayor Iveson,
Thank you for seeking out public input on this contentious issue.
I support collaborating Shaw Conference with the EXPO Centre, and more importantly under different leadership. It has been apparent since before the last EXPO Centre redevelopment that Northlands is incapable of promoting that facility.
They cannot simply rely on their old dependable conventions to sustain themselves, obviously.
With new hotels and our malls and even our international airport building more meeting/convention spaces, we need a trained team to scout and lock in new events for Shaw/EXPO.
How can there still be murmerings of Shaw expanding their building when EXPO can’t even fill theirs?
Collaborate and start making some money so debt can be repaid.
In my opinion the horse track and racing should stay AS IS. If it’s still profitable and if there doesn’t seem to be any other obvious use of that land, then we should leave as is.
It doesn’t make any sense to redevelop it into an outdoor concert venue. Huge waste of money. Our city boasts many great outdoor venues already, and I think it’s been made clear to Northlands that none of our existing festivals would be willing to move there.
Keep Horse Racing there.
As for the Collesium; I support the idea of a 6 rink remodel. However, since Edmonton ‘shot itself in the foot’ by contractually agreeing with OEG that the City not put money into the old icebarn and that it in no way compete with the new Rogers Place, then that issue must be dealt with first.
I agree that the old arena SHOULD NOT compete with the new arena.
The Collesium needs a new purpose.
Get a deal signed with Hockey Canada to have the ‘so-called’ hockey school at this 6 rink centre. Host some major tournaments there. Some curling events, etc.
As long as redevelopment price tag for the old arena isn’t something crazy, then it seems like a good plan.
We hear all the time, and can see the evidence in our downtown, that renovating existing buildings makes better economic sense than simply tearing them down.
Since Edmonton is already in need of more ice rinks to serve our (already too large) footprint. It makes sense to build a 6 rink inside the Collesium. It has LRT. Parking too.
Keep it full, make money.
I completely agree with our city councillor who said that the worst thing that could happen to Northlands would be to see all that land lie empty.
Edmonton does NOT need another Blatchford. If that happened it would take another 30+ years to build up that 160 acres of land into a new neighborhood.
Keep KDAYS there.
Keep FarmFair there.
Keep Horse Racing.
If it can be proven economically then put the Collesium 6-rink question to the voting public at the next civic election.
Then get on with it. Keep this city working.
Mr. Iveson,
thank you for the opportunity to speak to the motion, it is a welcome glimpse of the type of openess and transparency that appears to have been sadly lacking at Northlands for quite some time. I believe the motion is thoughtful, well-worded and generally on the money.
I suspect that part of the reason Northlands has had so much trouble is that it runs such a disparate set of operations, many with competing objectives. Implicit in your motion is the idea that the different components of Northlands ought to be disentangled and run separately which I think is for the best.
Although is it best for each venue to be directly run by its own focussed management I think a level of coordination and cooperation between all the major venues in Edmonton is in the best interest of the city, especially those that are operated by different organizations. Perhaps the second paragraph of the motion could include inverstigating the establishment of an “Edmonton Tourism, Events and Convention” council that would include representation from the city and all major venues and attractions (Rexall, Rogers, Jubilee, Winspear, RAM, etc)
Thanks for the opportunity to comment,
David
With all the many news stories over the past several months about Northlands, Vision 2020, horse racing, the new arena, etc., the same question keeps coming back to me time and time again and it is: Why has it taken the city this long (the new arena is about to open for Pete’s sake!) to start looking at what to do with the Coliseum and, in conjunction, the EXPO centre?
The city has known for years that the new arena was coming and that Northlands’ revenue stream would dry up when all business moved downtown – a decision made by the city – so why did the city not start looking at alternatives and the overall ASP years ago?
Would seem that the city really dropped the ball and as a home-owning, tax paying citizen, I find this incredibly concerning.
I think combining operations of the Shaw and the EXPO Centre makes sense – if done well – and I have yet to hear a better idea for what to do with the Coliseum, so looking further into a multi-sheet ice arena likely makes sense as well.
The area should be re-purposed for residential/commercial use. It already has the LRT in place and fits perfectly with the city’s vision of higher density housing.
There is no need for a mult-rink building, concert venue or any of the other “visions” put forth by Northlands…nor do we need the extra expense.
Before people get too caught up in the ‘romantic’ notion of redeveloping the Coliseum into a multi-sheet ice facility, several questions have to be answered. 1) How does the City plan to allow free parking for Coliseum activities (which are now available at every Rec Centre in the City), and yet not allow vehicles to park there for LRT use? 2) How are tournaments going to be drawn to the facility when there are no decent hotels or motels anywhere near the arena? 3) how can you attract events that would command a pay audience when the view seating would be extremely limited 4) unlike indoor soccer, how are the ice sheets going to be used in the summer? 5) how is this repurposing going to syphon city funding for arenas badly needed in the south areas of Edmonton. At many times of the day, it takes up to an hour or more to drive to this facility from southern Edmonton communities 6) how is this facility going to avoid losing large amount of money when most recreation centres today recover much of their costs through membership dues and not subsidized ice rentals (in fact, the ice surfaces are the most underused, especially during the daytime, and expensive parts of the new recreational centres?
The Coliseum was built in 1974 but lets be honest.
Its the House that Gretzky Built.
The Greatest Hockey Player of All Time
The Coliseum should be re purposed as a multiplex arena and the Replica Stanley Cup banners of The Edmonton Oilers and Memorial Cup Champion Oil Kings as well should rest in the rafters.
Katz and his group should support this and as well contribute to a museum of sorts for all to enjoy and reminisce. Provides them opportunity to attract more fans to the Oilers. Its a win/win situation. The down side is Katz would note he doesn’t make any money so why should he get involved. Bob Nicholson should be in support of this idea as it supports grassroots hockey. He was awarded honoree of the order of hockey in Canada for his work in tending to grassroots hockey in Canada. Get on it Bob and lean on Katz!
It’s about community and its about grassroots hockey.
Multiplex arena with amenities is something needed and desired in Edmonton.
Great possibilities for huge Minor Hockey Tournaments and Adult Tournaments of all ages and skill.
Lets separate Vision 20/20 and the multiplex idea. Let’s not make it all or nothing.
The coliseum needs to stay and is best served as a multiplex recreation arena complex and remain as Edmonton’s “House that Gretzky Built” for all to enjoy.
This is a fascinating set of responses. Bravo Edmontonians!
It seems we need three organizations:
ONE is about brand, marketing, tourism, conventions, event attraction (not dopey one-off money-losing events no one cares about… events that fit our brand).
TWO is about managing everything we’re building, as public land owners.
THREE is about entrepreneurship – Startup Edmonton, TEC Edmonton, a space-for-business strategy, and other initiatives.
We have to stop chasing shiny objects and we have to stop rewarding failed leaders and organizations.
– Northlands should receive no further assistance from the City; if they cannot develop a viable business they should but out of business. COE recover as much money as possible and develop new ARP for the land
– If Northlands defaults hand over the convention centre to EEDC, and redevelop the barn/race track land
– City can study repurposing the Coliseum for a sport competition space (hockey / indoor soccer / lacrosse / indoor racquet sports) as permitted by non-compete agreement with OEG; if there is no business case for such a facility, tear down the Coliseum
Can you strongly consider floating this motion alongside your recommendations? I feel it deserves a good look as well. The Alberta Government has an MOU for 10 years with horse racing which works in the interest of the City of Edmonton as far as guaranteed income for debt site repayment.
That Administration:
* Work with Northlands and Horse Racing stakeholders (Horse Racing Alberta, Horseman’s Benevolent & Protective Association of Alberta, Canadian Thoroughbred Horse Society of Alberta) with input from the horse racing community to complete a study and evaluate best practices for the existing race track & barns sites going forward as a possible alternative Vision 2020 tear down of same. Consider community impact of location closure as well as consider going forward with Racino model to maximize economic impact and community benefit – potentially under the management of Northlands, or a new agency or business.
My previously-stated opinion has not changed: disband Northlands and offer the land to Alberta Health Services to use instead of spending an extra billion or two trying to keep the Royal Alex Hospital running while rebuilding it on its current site. In exchange for the Royal Alex and Misericordia lands, perhaps plus some extra money.
The new hospital could be made large enough to replace both the Royal Alex and Misericordia, saving the AHS costs associated with doctors commuting between the two hospitals because there isn’t enough work for many specialists at either hospital.
Mayor Iveson,
I believe the motion has been crafted well and speaks to the concerns and aspirations of many Edmontonians’. While I do support the motion I caution you to ensure that in asking Administration to do the leg work, and return to Council with conceptual plans and recommendations, that existing City resources are not used to the detriment of other City projects or projects being proposed by the Private Sector.
I believe that there is a fuzziness around who owns what and who controls what in the Northlands area.
The City of Edmonton owns the land and most of the buildings (is the landlord) and Northlands runs the site (is the property manager). Northlands offers programming for Edmonton and region on behalf of the City of Edmonton. Therefore I don’t agree with pitting Northlands against the city or its citizens. We are all partners in this though ultimately the City of Edmonton is responsible for the physical site, like a landlord is.
As a community member that lives nearby I can say that Northlands has worked hard to come up with an alternate business model for the space given the agreement the City made for the new downtown arena. I haven’t seen the results of the City’s suggestions for the site. It may be tempting to point a finger at Northlands and accuse them of all sorts of negative things, but really, they are just trying to adapt to a difficult and changing situation and have been and still are open to feedback, especially from the local communities surrounding Northlands – something which the City has not engaged in, in a meaningful way to date.
Saying that, I feel that Mayor Iveson’s proposed motion is balanced a has a more open tone to what I’ve read from the City so far in response to Northlands Vision 2020. As a neighbor to Northlands I don’t want to live with a large vacant or semi-used site for at least a decade (other sites like Blatchford would take first priority) while a plan may emerge for an already vulnerable part of the city. The plan for re-imagining Northlands should have begun in earnest prior to the agreement for the downtown arena being settled, not now or a short while from now.
First things first, gotta get rid of those grain elevators!!
Anyways, I think with the old arena, Borden park, northlands, horse track, etc. All in that one area, I think yegcc should work with k-days admin to think up a good way to develop the whole area to become almost like a dedicated grounds area like the stampede grounds in yyc. I’m sure they could make use of the area during the rest of the year like bringing back that big music festival that was in gibbons.
Katz wants Rexall Place gone.What Katz wants,Katz gets.
Multi-plex arena is (in my opinion) a grand idea, but one that is not appropriate for Edmonton. The time has come to reimagine the Northlands site – what a terrific opportunity to build low income / mixed income housing – close to the LRT (which is one of the requirements) – Add in some commercial services (grocery, restaurants, cafes) – include some green space (soccer / baseball ) maybe a fenced dog park – and you can meet the low income needs, enhance the existing community – and put an end to NOrthlands existing on the taxpayer dime. I am tired of Northland’s excuses and the City making exceptions for them. They need to repay the loan, and be happy managing Expo (if that can be made to be profitable? I’m not sure). Enough already. This is a great opportunity – lets not squander it. Yes – there was a time when Northlands made sense. Times have changed.
Mayor Iveson,
I was very surprised when I read Northlands 2020 plan. One part of the plan was about making Rexall Place into a mega skating arena complex with six hockey rings.
I understand why Edmonton and Alberta in general is crazy about hockey. We have two NHL teams in the same province and thousands of registered hockey players. According to Hockey Alberta, 64,069 registered players to be precise.
http://hockeyalberta.digiflip.com/2016-HA_Annual_Report/flipviewerxpress.html (Summary of Registrants on Page 16)
At the same time, according to Alberta Soccer Association we have 91,930 registered soccer players, 29,906 players from Edmonton. Calgary has 20,774 registered players. Even with a much smaller registered base, Calgary has way more indoor facilities that are supportive of soccer during winter.
https://issuu.com/albertasoccer/docs/2015_annual_report__final_/1
Edmonton demand for indoor soccer facilities is way beyond what the city can support. Teams are constantly playing in St. Albert, Spruce Groove and Sherwood Park.
What I expected to see in the near future for Edmonton is a plan that supports the growth of Soccer. Indoor facilities are paramount to support the sport during winter and create an environment that can develop players that can go all the way to professional levels. Can you imagine all hockey players playing hockey with a half size rink during summer? This is what is happening with soccer in Edmonton during winter since the city doesn’t have ONE facility that has a full size indoor field. And all other indoor facilities are fully booked to the extent that leagues are capping the number of teams during winter.
I like the idea of an agriculture centre diversifying towards biotech, genetics and other resources and TEC geared to ag industry we could commercialize and export.
Also like the idea of a sports academy. Training our future Olympians.
So broadly education, Agriculture (keeping with its early history roots) and sport.
So broadly I’d like to see the space used for Education, Agriculture and sports. City
I support some of these proposals but urge Council not to make any hasty decisions. I fully support deferring debt payments until Northlands is up and running again. After all, the City has earmarked the $2M annual grant to Northlands to the downtown arena. Northlands has been viable, it can continue to be viable. It has been severely hampered by the ongoing negotiations and the deal struck between the city and the Katz group. I do not want council eying Northlands through a privatization lens or a developers’ lens. That just makes developers very wealthy and we lose a public asset. Building on what we have is what is needed. It is unfortunate the contract for the downtown arena throws up so many barriers to successfully repurposing this facility (I do not think this was an oversight).
The non-compete clauses worked into that agreement are a serious impediment and need to addressed before a viable solution for optimum utilization of this facility and land can be worked out.
I am not in favour of land development, I support the 6 rink concept, the attraction of bonspiels and tournaments. Even some land usage for building more indoor soccer facilities. Creating an accessible, affordable, sports hub for amateur sports and communities is attractive. Getting someone to build a hotel in the vicinity would be an asset. Again, I am not in favour of privatizing this land or the facility.
How we signed off on an agreement for the downtown arena that prohibited competition, imposed a ticket tax (for 35 years), says the city cannot assist northlands, reallocated the Northlands annual $2M grant to the downtown arena project AND limits the city to usage of the Winter Garden/Community Rink to a maximum of 28 days per year for non-commercial use is beyond me. I imagine the first time the city will use it will be for the upcoming free-to-the-public but is costing the city lots open house is one of the 28 usages.
The $2M grant that used to go to Northlands, now earmarked for the arena, could go a long ways in promoting and developing amateur sports in this city.
We lost the National Finals Rodeo because of the non-compete clause and the desire for the downtown arena to get the Rodeo.
Far too much has already been spent supporting the downtown arena (eggs in one basket) with little regard or thought for optimum usage of an existing facility we funded. The festival site proposed was a conflict with the downtown arena contract.
For those unfamiliar with some expenditures, the city (that’s us) will shell out just over $17M each and every year for the next 20 years for the downtown arena. That does NOT include the ticket tax, the extra tax everyone will pay to attend an event at the new arena or at an event at Northlands (shown in the financials to exist for 35 years). We bought the land, built the arena, community arena, winter garden, provided the infrasture, pedway, roads, LRT, lighting, etc. and we even sold them (or gave them) a city block so an underground parade could be built (illegal for the city to do, but if owned privately it could be done).
The non-compete clauses in the negotiated agreement make it impossible for Northlands to host major events. They even make it impossible for the city to assist Northlands, although the Katz group has no problems with financial assistance.
The financials have you believe it is almost a 50/50 split (much like a community beautification project). Nothing could be further from the truth. While the City will be paying $17M each year for the next twenty years, the Katz group will be paying around $7M each year for the next 35 years (amortized commitments) and raking in revenues from the gate (tickets) parking, concession, skyboxes, etc. and a break on taxes.
The only upfront money paid by the Katz group is a paltry $19.8M for the arena and another $6M for the winter garden. There was no $100M paid by Katz upfront for this arena. The ticket tax funds are listed as payments by the Katz group. We are paying the money. But because they collect them, collections over 35 years are listed on the Katz side of the ledger, totally skewing the actual contributions.
So downtown arena – City $17M per year for the next 20 years and we maintain the building; Katz group $7M per year for the next 35 years. This $700M project is far from a partnership and it is affecting what Council can and should do with Northlands.
I urge Council to step back, consider all options, involve the public, work out something that is in the public’s interests for the Northlands facility and land. Let’s keep in mind the Northlands group or the Edmonton Oilers Group (EOG) are the very people that stepped up to the plate to keep the Oilers here in the first place. And the facility, the Coliseum has consistently ranked in the top 20 venues in North America for attracting events and concerts and placed as high as 14th twice. It remains to be seen where the new arena will place on rankings in North America.
I’d like to see one of these layers (upper?) made into indoor soccer areas like you can find in buildings like Tri Leisure Centre in Spruce Grove. These spaces can be filled with a number of sports like soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, etc. During slow periods they can be rented for active parties and kids can have picnics, play tag or red rover and be active no matter what the weather is like. I don’t feel that Edmonton needs six more rinks. Speaking of the Tri Leisure Centre, it also has a running/jogging track high above the rinks/fields. Providing safe and comfortable places to exercise alone, with friends, or with a stroller at any time of year. Northlands could have so much more potential than just ice rinks.
I believe the first option should be further investigated as a potential solution. Who said it won’t work. Hockey groups are having problems getting ice time. We have to book well in advance and travel far for ice. Maybe some of the groups should be contacted. Invite them for their input. Of course, it is price dependent. As long as it is within the same price as the comeptitors because if noyt, everyone will wait for the cheaper ice times. Maybe some other winter or summer events can happen there. Maybe soccer. We are short of soccer fields too. I would also like to see more local entertainers, comedy acts, magicians, musicians. Maybe this can be added in somehow? I like the rebuilding plan since it was not Northland’s fault that a new arena was built and we could use a lot of additional activities! Maybe less crime?
I don’t believe in Northlands, I would like to see Tim Reid gone. Then we can talk.
The race track needs to stay! What a waste of money for the city to tear it down and for someone to build a new one. It doesn’t make sense why we would throw away all that revenue. Put all the horse people out of work until they build a new track. Most of those people make minimum wage. Now talk history, Alberta would loose the Canadian Derby and all the hype we have worked so hard to build over the years. The barns need work but the grandstand has a lot of years left in it. If northlands doesn’t want it sell to a private owner.
I’m ok with repurposing Rexall place. Kids are the future and if we need the ice space then why not. We could use more teams for kids who just want to play for fun.
Northlands couldn’t manage what they had. Why are we even considering giving them yet another chance.
Well Northlands has had it’s day in Edmonton. I agree that the old Coliseum building should be re-purposed in to a new 7 rink community ice centre. How ever the rest of the Northlands land should be re-developed in to new housing like the old city centre airport is being done right now! I think that K-Days could easily be hosted down in Hawrelak park as Vancouver’s PNE is held in what is basically a park!
I support the multiplex at Rexall Place.
I support the Shaw Conference and the Expo Centre merging and being managed together by a new entity, but not the current Northlands administration.
I do not support a festival facility instead of the race track. horse racing in 2014 was 43% of Northlands overall revenue. Northlands is not making greatly needed improvements to the barn area or the racing surface. I think the city should lease or sell the race track facility to private industry interested in the horse racing business. Horse racing is a tradition in Edmonton.
We also do not need another area for transit oriented housing such as Blatchford and Fort Road near Belvedere where the city has not succeeded in selling the land to developers as was part of the blotched Fort road revitalization plan laid out 7 years ago and still sits empty.
I think so far (with early bookings for Rogers Place) we have seen that there is room for two arenas in this city. All of these proposals I could come even close to considering if I was in your shoes is IF Rexall Place doesn’t prove itself as a competing arena is the hockey rinks that will need to be built somewhere and makes the exterior of the coliseum look like less of an eyesore.
The rest if justifiable can come with private investment.
IMHO Northlands is a bloated “not for profit” with too many overpaid executives and extremely low paid front line staff and if their business model doesn’t work anymore than so be it.
I believe the reno idea is the best for the area. Has anyone tried to contact the local community leagues? I have read a few blogs where they are saying that Northlands is trying to work with them and the area.
I am curious as to how Reid is to blame? He is currently in charge but when a lot of the decisions that started all this were made, he wasn’t even in the city. So he is dealing with what he was left.
And muti rinks can be covered for soccer and other surfaces required. The existing rinks already change from ice to turf to rubber for concerts. So I don’t see why the smaller rinks couldn’t be handled the same way.
Thanks for asking for input beforehand! Good next steps. I would support a loan repayment deferral only because the City is morally obligated to support Northlands having cut their legs out from under them, however I would prefer a top up of payment rather than 100% deferral. I support examining joining EEDC’s and Northlands’s mandate with respect to event and facility management. A thought on the racetracks lands…perhaps good place for indoor soccer, they are looking for land?
I think getting rid of horse racing at Northlands is a really bad idea. After all these decades..why take money and more potential future cash and attraction OUT of the city??
The building in is good shape and it’s one of the most interesting places to in the city. Horse racing is not decreasing in popularity worldwide it’s increasing, I don’t know where that came from. Perhaps it’s decreasing at Northlands only, yet it is still very profitable for them. Maybe Northlands and those involved should market it better or change marketing direction? I was there during the Canadian Derby this year and it was packed! Maybe trying to make that wonderful building more multiuse?
How about bringing the Indycar Race back to Edmonton once a year on a semi permanent track at Northlands that involves part of the the horse track? Going by that Grandstand would be perfect for the sport.
How about opening a huge Drive In movie theater at Northlands for the summer?
K-Days should re-embrace the Klondike there, the entire City use to get in on that for decades. It’s part of our history and it was fun!
Idea’s will come.
As for Rexall Place, again the building is perfectly functional. It seems to me ripping the guts out of it would be insanely expensive. Why should only the new Arena get concerts and events now?? Who signed that deal??? How does that benefit the city as a whole? I think the to buildings can co-exist just fine there is enough demand. Let them compete for business like everyone else! Where are the Oil Kings playing now?
Making it a multiplex for community hockey may benefit people within the area, but who wants to drive from the south, west end or out of town to take kids to skate? Maybe I’m wrong.
Building a hotel and a few high rise condos on the site may be a good idea. Plus the new pool will be finished next year. One thing that should of happened years ago is one or two large parkades should have been built, they were suppose to be. There is so much land wasted for parking at the Northlands grounds and in all of central Edmonton!
I guess generally speaking give it time for new and creative ideas to come.
Is it certain that a new multi surface ice hockey facility will be economically self sufficient? Or, is this idea gaining traction because it would allow for repurposing of the coliseum. Would it not be wise to first confirm that such a facility, located somewhere in Edmonton, is needed and would self sufficient, and THEN determine if the coliseum is the best place to put such a facility.
Northlands is about greed, for the benefit of its few hand picked soldiers and their friends. Zero public dollars should be provided. If there’s a business case for any of their ventures they can get a loan like anyone else.
I posted this originally on the FB post, but this seems to where the biggest conversation seems to be taking place. So my two cents…
Good stuff here. I’ll only add this thought: One good thing that was in the Vision 2020 was the idea of a mid-sized event venue. Right now our event venues basically jump from about 2,500 – 13,000; there is no mid-sized arena. Currently, it seems Rexall Place is (sort of) bridging that gap with Disney on Ice, mid-sized concerts, curling, wrestling, etc. Even though Rogers Place can be reduced to theatre seating, it seems we are already running into scheduling conflicts with many of these “smaller” events schedule for the same day there are Oilers or Oil Kings games. Perhaps a mid-sized arena could be considered as one of the arenas in the “multiplex” or part of the merging of our current Expo and Conference sites.
Northlands has lied and screwed up more times than you can count. They say racing loses money, lies. Reports published have proven different. How can Northlands be unable to to make money,$16 to park, over priced food and beverages and admission fees to anything at the Expo Centre. Tradeshow booth rentals are outrageous. Perhaps it’s the board being so top heavy, not to mention a councilman being on the Northlands board. Wouldn’t that be a conflict of interest?
Keep horseracing, repair barn area since it’s been ignored for almost 30 years by the board of Northlands.
Which would encourage more horse people here.
While the coliseum rework idea may be good remember even though this is a hockey town, there are other sports that need some place to play. Not everyone is playing hockey.
Maybe it’s time for a total replacement of the supposedly non profit board of Northlands!
Don, I support your approach as it may give some breathing room to all involved. I understand both the cities viewpoint and Northlands. I’ve put a lot of thought into it Northlands sustainability and have tried to learn as much as possible about their proposals. I think Northlands ideas have a lot of merit but require more time to discuss. I’ve looked through the City’s and EEDC’s budgets to see what the convention center and arenas cost the city. They are not self sustaining either. I’ve thought about the EEDC’s mandate and what Northlands offers the city and agree there is significant overlap BUT, what Northlands does offer that is unique is the skills and resources in staff, volunteers and facilities to incubate new festivals, concerts and events. They have built soft skills which aren’t being discussed. WMC missed that in my opinion. The discussion seems focused around facilities. Facilities are permanent, organizational learning is not.
At $85,000,000 to make 7 rinks in the Coliseum, each rink would need to be booked at $100 per hour, 24 hours a day for 14 straight years just to break even.
Seems to me the money could be much better spent.
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this above, but Edmonton needs to jump on the roller hockey bandwagon. I believe there is only one tiled arena in Spruce Grove. Roller hockey is a huge sport in the USA and there are many kids in Edmonton that would rather play roller hockey than ice hockey. Currently Edmonton has no facilities for this, maybe some tiled surfaces can be added to be used to the above plans for year round roller hockey in YEG. Currently roller hockey is played in the spring locally at the soccer centres, and cement surfaces at arenas. When the ice is in, and the soccer arenas are being used for soccer, there is no facility available for roller hockey. Help bring year round roller hockey to Edmonton!!
Mr. Mayor, Before the City makes a decision regarding the race track, please listen to Kathy B.(Aug.10). The City needs to listen to these people at a meeting(not 5 min.), as it involves their industry,their home(Northlands Park) & all employees working there. They deserve respect, that they never received from Northlands. Why would the City let racing, which has been there for a 100 yrs. leave the city. It’s part of our heritage, & not loosing money as Northlands claims. Northlands has always tried make the racetrack as a failure. For some reason they have pure distain for the racing industry. I live in a unique area of Edmonton where we have a racetrack, K-Day’s, Borden Park & Commonwealth Stadium. Tim Reid has finally shown himself to everyone; that he is a self serving, arrogant person, not only to the horseracing industry for years, but now to the City by threatening to cancel K-Days if he doesn’t get his way. Keep the racetrack here where it belongs & not a 2 yr. porch light for the area. I support repurposing the coliseum as long as Northlands is not in control. He wants a legacy & it’s the coliseum and being able to con the City to defer millions, while wanting more millions. Northlands has to be disbanded, and bring in people with knowledge & integrity to handle the Expo & racetrack. If you work with Northlands,Tear down the coliseum & build parkades for much needed LRT parking.Just don’t let him handle the parking as he’s being sued.
Would love to see some space for Pickleball Courts! It’s the fastest growing sport in North America and there is a lack of courts in the Province of Alberta. Some cities have a few courts… but not enough space for tournaments. Pickleball is a mix of badmington, tennis and ping pong… played on a Badmington sized Court. Thank you for your consideration.
I have long believed that it could be turned into a sporting center of excellence. Long and Short Track Speed Skating as well as a Cycling Velodrome. It probably wouldn’t draw a large tourist presence but it could serve to attract more world class athletes to choose to live and train in Edmonton.